“Heartbreak Is a Fucking Gift”: Lily Allen Bares All

Lily Allen has no filter, and no regrets. So when the British singer, podcaster, and mother of two showed up at Mel Ottenberg’s apartment to promote her first album in seven years, everything, including toe pics, Raya dates, and her recent brutal breakup, was on the table.

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THURSDAY 1 PM SEPT. 11, 2025 NYC

LILY ALLEN: Oh my god, I’ve literally just dripped chili sauce all over myself.

MEL OTTENBERG: [Laughs] I totally relate to that. So how long are you off from the podcast [Miss Me?]?

ALLEN: I did my last one on Monday. I’m not coming back for a while.

OTTENBERG: Got it. So it’s not, like, planned. It’s just Lily’s time.

ALLEN: Mm-hmm.

OTTENBERG: Your sandwich smells good. I’m Jewish, so I love a toasted bagel that’s melting.

ALLEN: But not the bacon, right?

OTTENBERG: Oh no, I’m not kosher. I eat bacon. I ran into Mark Ronson last night. He asked me what my favorite song was right now and I said it’s “Dallas Major.” And he was like, “It’s so good.”

ALLEN: Aww.

OTTENBERG: We like your album. When does it come out?

ALLEN: The 24th of October.

OTTENBERG: Where should we begin? I didn’t write many notes because you’re just a dream to talk to.

ALLEN: I don’t know if that’s true, but okay.

OTTENBERG: You’re a dream for me to talk to. So should we call it a revenge tour?

ALLEN: [Laughs] It isn’t. I mean, I wrote this record in 10 days in December and I feel very differently about the whole situation now. We all go through breakups and it’s always fucking brutal. But I don’t think it’s that often that you feel inclined to write about it while you’re in it.

OTTENBERG: You do that later.

ALLEN: Yeah. That’s what’s fun about this record; it’s viscerally like going through the motions. At the time, I was really trying to process things and that’s great in terms of the album, but I don’t feel confused or angry now. I don’t need revenge.

OTTENBERG: You’re just telling a story.

ALLEN: Well, some of it is based on truth and some of it is fantasy.

OTTENBERG: Interesting. Wait, let’s go in my bedroom, you can vape to your heart’s content. I’m going to chew some Nicorette and drink coffee.

ALLEN: Is it through here? I have hot sauce all over my tits.

OTTENBERG: You do. It’s so hot. That t-shirt works great in here.

ALLEN: I’m literally going to get into bed.

OTTENBERG: Yeah, take your shoes off. Relax.

ALLEN: This room is major.

OTTENBERG: Thank you. I love her very much. Do you have to redo some stuff ? When I broke up with my ex I had to.

ALLEN: I don’t know if I’ll stay there.

OTTENBERG: Wait, I want to tell you that “Sleepwalking” is one of my favorite songs on the album. I think of being hurt and alone and really spiraling in your feelings, but I also remember being an asshole.

ALLEN: I played the bad character in my first marriage, so I understand.

OTTENBERG: Do different types of people have different reactions? Like straight men, straight women, lesbians, gays?

ALLEN: I haven’t played it to that many straight men, but my manager has. He says you can definitely tell who’s cheating on their wife and who isn’t.

OTTENBERG: [Laughs] Yes. Is “Sleepwalking” a single?

ALLEN: I don’t know yet.

OTTENBERG: I really love it. Your voice sounds gorgeous.

ALLEN: I’m glad to hear that, because record labels always want the upbeat ones, like “Nonmonogamummy.” But I’m with you, I like “Sleepwalking.” It’s not a cruel album. I don’t feel like I’m being mean. It was just the feelings I was processing at the time.

OTTENBERG: Where were you when you wrote it?

ALLEN: Los Angeles, Beachwood Canyon.

OTTENBERG: Were you alone?

ALLEN: No, I was with the executive producer, this guy called Blue, who was also the musical director on my last tour in 2018. I was here in New York and I was like, “I’m going fucking crazy. I need to get out of this house and write with somebody I trust.” I called up Blue and he had 10 days so I just did it in those 10 days.

OTTENBERG: What was the process like?

ALLEN: Manic.

OTTENBERG: Lots of vaping.

ALLEN: Actually, I was vaping and smoking cigarettes at the time, so it was a Parliament Light in one hand, a vape in the other, and lots of crying, lots of storytelling. I was processing a long relationship, and so things I hadn’t really considered before were coming up and I was like, “Do you think that when this was happening?”

OTTENBERG: So you’re with Blue in the studio, then what happens?

ALLEN: There’s an album I love called A Grand Don’t Come for Free by the Streets, and it’s like a movie from start to finish. Each song can stand alone and make total sense, but together it’s more like a novel. I’ve always wanted to do that, and it just happened that way on this record. The night before I went into the studio, I wrote 18 track titles—no melodies, no lyrics. Nobody in the studio knew what was going on in my life. I got there, spent about two hours crying my 147 heart out, and then I was like, “We’re going to write an album based on some of these feelings.” There were markers that I wanted to hit to give it a beginning, middle, and end.

OTTENBERG: How do you feel now? I mean it’s heartbreaking, sure. But it’s also fun. You really have to have a sense of humor to make this album, which you do.

ALLEN: I don’t know if I did at the time, but we did go back and tweak things. It was very important to me that I didn’t sound like a victim, so I’d be like, “We have to change that line. It just sounds too, ‘Poor me.’” I wanted it to feel brutal and tragic, but also empowering, that there was joy in being able to express it.

OTTENBERG: Music with a broken heart has a different power.

ALLEN: Yeah, especially in this day and age when we are so disconnected because of our smartphones. It’s like, “Holy shit, I’m feeling things.” I’m always wanting to feel things, which is why I’m a drug addict and an alcoholic. I’m desperately searching for that thing.

OTTENBERG: Right.

ALLEN: Heartbreak is also a fucking gift.

OTTENBERG: I remember grocery shopping during a breakup and hearing “Unbreak My Heart” and being like, “I cannot believe I’m crying this hard to a Toni Braxton song in a motherfucking supermarket.” [Laughs]

ALLEN: It’s something that everybody can relate to. That’s why 98 percent of songs are about love or loneliness.

OTTENBERG: Do you have a break-up mix?

ALLEN: I don’t.

OTTENBERG: I have an incredible one. I listened to it again this summer on a bike ride by myself and I was like, “These songs are so good.”

ALLEN: Please forward it to me.

OTTENBERG: Oh, I will. It’s so melodramatic. The way the songs go from “Don’t ever leave me” to “You’re a dumb piece of shit” to “I need you back, please stay” is fab.

ALLEN: I need it. [Laughs] I’m not a massive music listener. I used to be, when I was married to my first husband who was a big record collector. But I feel like the digitization of music has fucked me slightly. When I’m feeling raw and broken, I find doomscrolling more helpful.

OTTENBERG: Fair. Lily Allen, how do you get out of a broken heart?

ALLEN: I think it’s just getting out and socializing. I’m guilty of putting all of it on one person when I’m in a relationship. So when that person leaves, I feel completely bereft and it takes me a while to be like, “Actually, I can rely on friends for some of this stuff as well.”

OTTENBERG: Are you dating anyone?

ALLEN: Maybe. [Laughs]

OTTENBERG: Cool. Have you hit the apps?

ALLEN: I have. They’re awful, especially if you’re going through heartbreak. There is nothing more depressing than hundreds of people that are nothing like the person that you’re missing. It’s just like, “No, that’s not him. That’s not him. That’s not him.”

OTTENBERG: I’m assuming that being a woman in the public eye on the apps has its own challenges.

ALLEN: It does, because I’m not really looking to go out with another famous person. Also, when I go on dates with other people, there’s a bit of a barrier in terms of—not so much here, but in England it’s a bit of a novelty to be on a date with me.

OTTENBERG: Right.

ALLEN: To want to get past that, I have to really, really be interested in that person.

OTTENBERG: Well, I just loved “Dallas Major.” It’s a song for the faggots and the single girls. That was also the inspiration for our photo shoot. In my mind, she’s like, “Fuck it, I look hot. I’m going to get fucked.”

ALLEN: [Laughs]

OTTENBERG: “And I’m conflicted about it, but I’m doing it anyway and I’m going to do it in the Carlyle Hotel because why not?” And hopefully it’s amazing, but it could not be—

ALLEN: More than likely it’s not.

OTTENBERG: Totally. I’ve had a good run on the apps, but then after a while it’s really bad for your brain because you’re always just looking for another. It’s the hamster wheel.

ALLEN: I’ve never felt like I’ve been crushing it on the apps. [Laughs]

OTTENBERG: I have, but as of right now, I have no hookup apps on my phone.

ALLEN: That’s good. Did I tell you I got banned from Hinge for impersonating myself?

OTTENBERG: Oh my god.

ALLEN: I’m like, “I can prove that I’m that person.” They’re like, “You’ll need to send us your ID.” And I’m like, “Actually my name and the name on my ID aren’t the same.”

OTTENBERG: And they were like, “That’s it.”

ALLEN: Bye.

OTTENBERG: Are you on Raya?

ALLEN: Yeah.

OTTENBERG: What’s it like? Do you have a song on Raya? Can I look at your profile?

ALLEN: Yeah.

OTTENBERG: Amazing. I love looking at people’s Raya profiles. I’ve never had it.

ALLEN: Mine’s terrible. [Laughs]

iPHONE: Rack city, bitch. Rack, rack city, bitch.

OTTENBERG: Damn, this is pretty cute.

ALLEN: Yeah?

OTTENBERG: Wait, what is car crash TV?

ALLEN: Like [The Real] Housewives.

OTTENBERG: Right. Is there a reality show that you’re into right now?

ALLEN: I like Love Is Blind and Love Is Blind: Habibi, which is the Saudi Arabian version. It’s not very good, my Raya. I don’t put much effort into it.

OTTENBERG: And you’re maybe dating someone.

ALLEN: I’m not in a relationship, but there are some people that I meet up with.

OTTENBERG: Really? I might be in a relationship.

ALLEN: [Laughs]

OTTENBERG: Okay, let’s talk about your feet. I’m lying in bed. Lily right now is wearing vintage Levi’s.

ALLEN: I actually bought these in the Levi’s store the other day.

OTTENBERG: Oh, they look great.

ALLEN: Thank you.

OTTENBERG: Wait, can you stand up?

ALLEN: Yeah.

OTTENBERG: She’s just a normal girl wearing new Levi’s from the Levi’s store and a vintage—

ALLEN: Tom of Finland shirt.

OTTENBERG: It’s a cop grabbing the asses of two buxom bottoms, a blonde and a brunette.

ALLEN: With a big penis.

OTTENBERG: Oh, his cock is gigantic, people. [Laughs] And Lily’s hair is up. She has about 16 earrings—1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17 earrings.

ALLEN: No way. I did not know that.

OTTENBERG: Her vape is—

ALLEN: Matcha Flum Pebble. My friend just brought them from L.A. for me.

OTTENBERG: How many did you get?

ALLEN: Ten. Six thousand hits on each.

OTTENBERG: Wait, can you blow it in my face so I can smell it? It’s got a—

ALLEN: Matcha flavor.

OTTENBERG: Okay. Wait, do it again. Let me take a picture. You’re also drinking matcha. Can you hold it up? Gorgeous. You’re an outrageous vaper.

ALLEN: I mean, yeah. I don’t do things by halves, and also, I have nothing else.

OTTENBERG: Oh, baby, I understand. That’s why I’m always sucking on an unlit cigarette, because I don’t even have vaping. I
need to chew gum right now. Wait, where is it? Elizabeth? Did you see those pieces of gum that are brown? The nicotine gum?

ELIZABETH: No.

OTTENBERG: Okay. Sometimes I remember that I just need to chew gum. Like you said, I need something.

ALLEN: Yeah. If I didn’t vape, I’d be smoking cigarettes, and that would be disgusting.

OTTENBERG: That’s bad. I don’t know where my gum is. Okay, let’s talk about your feet. Can we look at your OnlyFans?

ALLEN: We can when my phone is charged. It’s not really that interesting. I started it just over a year ago. I was quite active in the beginning, but when I broke up with David, it just wasn’t that fun anymore.

OTTENBERG: What do people want from you? Pictures of your feet?

ALLEN: They want dirty soles, white socks, like schoolgirl socks or ankle socks, some clean, some dirty. White socks in Mary Jane shoes. Stepping in food. Toe spreading, because that’s what happens when you’re climaxing.

OTTENBERG: Oh, yeah. That makes sense.

ALLEN: They like you to be touching your feet, a caress.

OTTENBERG: Right.

ALLEN: Rubbing them with oil or something.

OTTENBERG: There’s no heel involved.

ALLEN: People like shoes.

OTTENBERG: And you like pumps.

ALLEN: I like pumps, yeah. And there’s a more sophisticated customer that likes a stocking and a court shoe. There’s another really gross word that they use. It’s not stocking, what is it?

OTTENBERG: Tights?

ALLEN: Not tights, something else.

OTTENBERG: I’d love to know what the word is. Do you always have dark red on your toenails?

ALLEN: No, that’s the other thing they pay money for—they get to choose the color.

OTTENBERG: What do they ask for?

ALLEN: Some people want white. Some people want dark red. Some people want bright red. I would never let anyone ask for a green or a blue or something.

OTTENBERG: Okay.

ALLEN: It’s all very classic.

OTTENBERG: Right, but done for them.

ALLEN: Yes.

OTTENBERG: “Do bright red toenails and spread your toes for me.”

ALLEN: [Laughs] Nylons. That’s what they say.

OTTENBERG: People in America are saying nylons?

ALLEN: Nylons.

OTTENBERG: I mean, America’s a fucked-up country. Do they ask you for extra things where you’re like, “This is so gross”? Are they being like, “Will you fart on your toes?”

ALLEN: [Laughs] Yes, but I tend to just ignore it and move on.

OTTENBERG: That seems like a good idea. [Laughs] Can we please look at your wikiFeet?

ALLEN: We can’t because I’ve just realized I’ve got a child lock on so I can’t go on the internet or my Instagram. But I can get Wells, my assistant, to forward you the links.

OTTENBERG: I would love that. I’m into Brick, but also the time limit seems very serious. People, I’m just trying to help my brain be healed.

ALLEN: Well, if I need to get onto the internet or Instagram, then I have to call my assistant and say, “Can I have the PIN number?” And that’s really lame.

OTTENBERG: Right. Do you have a Finsta?

ALLEN: Yeah. I have about five. One’s a fake Charli XCX account. [Laughs]

OTTENBERG: Really? [Laughs] Are some for spying and some for posting? I decided today that I’m going to retire my Finsta.

ALLEN: Why?

OTTENBERG: I just have so much work that I want to be doing and I’m like, “There’s not enough hours in the day.”

ELIZABETH: Bye now.

OTTENBERG: Bye, Elizabeth.

ALLEN: Nice to meet you.

OTTENBERG: Do you have other ones that are just for looking at people?

ALLEN: Yeah. And then I get blocked.

OTTENBERG: Do you comment?

ALLEN: No, it’s more just spying on people. But then I get found out and then I get blocked and then I have to start a new one.

OTTENBERG: I really don’t like a toxic commenter. It’s like, “What is wrong with you people?”

ALLEN: It’s very strange.

OTTENBERG: Those who cannot do, troll people on the internet. Okay, I think I asked you all the questions. We talked about the album. We did feet. How’s your heart now?

ALLEN: Today it feels okay. I’m here next week just to do press shots for the album and stuff. I have four days where I’m not doing anything and I don’t really want that space and time. I feel like maybe I should go to Miami or something. My heart has up days and down days.

OTTENBERG: So wait, remind me. Your last album came out in 2018?

ALLEN: Yeah.

OTTENBERG: That’s almost as long as Rihanna. Crazy. Okay. And then what happened?

ALLEN: Well, everything I was writing was dog shit. I felt like I had writer’s block or something, but actually I think I just knew that something wasn’t right. I always strive to tell the truth in my art, so I guess I subconsciously knew that something wasn’t right in my personal life, and I couldn’t go there creatively because if I did, then it would all fall apart. So it kind of took it all falling apart for me to find my authentic voice.

OTTENBERG: And then it just started to work?

ALLEN: It was immediate. I probably have a hundred songs I’ve written over the past four or five years, but you just know when you leave the studio. You want to put it on in the car and listen to it on the way home. You want to send it to your friends. I did not have that feeling. I wouldn’t say I was ashamed, but I was not excited by anything I had done to the point where I wanted to share it with people that I love, never mind the rest of the world. Whereas when I started writing this, I was immediately like, “I’m onto something.”

OTTENBERG: What do you think he’ll think when he hears the songs?

ALLEN: I try not to think about that.

OTTENBERG: And so making this got you out of the breakup?

ALLEN: No. I checked into a treatment center six weeks afterwards. That got me out of the funk.

OTTENBERG: What did they serve for food there?

ALLEN: I was just drinking those protein shakes.

OTTENBERG: So you could put on weight?

ALLEN: Yeah. It’s a fucking cliché, but I think honestly, it’s just time, isn’t it?

OTTENBERG: Yeah. It’s like what I was saying about my breakup mix that I’m going to send you right now. I made that in the most extreme pain, and now it’s really so dramatic. Time heals wounds.

ALLEN: It really does.

OTTENBERG: Thanks, Lily.

ALLEN: My pleasure. Thank you.

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Hair: Kevin Ryan using Bumble and Bumble at Art + Commerce.

Makeup: Janessa Paré using Armani Beauty at Streeters.

Nails: Nori using Chanel Le Vernis at See Management.

Prop Stylist: Joonie Jang.

Tailor: Macy Idzakovich at The Zaks Team.

Market Direction: Lucy Gaston.

Fashion Assistants: Abby McDade and Sunny Kern.

Set Design Assistant: Oscar Romero.

On-set Production: Shante Williams.

Production Assistant: Greg Garofalo.

Production Intern: Isaac James Levy.

Location: Lea Attalla Designs.

Special Thanks: Paras Musallam.