Jade Thirlwall and Michelle Visage on the Art of Making It

Jade Thirlwall’s viral hit “Angel of My Dreams” may be a new staple at Gay Guy Music Video Night, but after years of touring with London-based girl group Little Mix, the 32-year-old pop star is anything but green. After getting her start on The X Factor (U.K.), the northern Brit spent years navigating the highs and lows of the music industry, a theme she explores on her debut record, That’s Showbiz Baby. As she tells her mentor, the singer, producer, and RuPaul’s Drag Race host Michelle Visage, it took going solo to meet all the versions of herself.

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TUESDAY 5 PM JULY 3, 2025 LONDON

JADE THIRLWALL: Hello!

MICHELLE VISAGE: Hi, girl. How are you?

THIRLWALL: I’m good, thanks. I’m actually here with my mom.

VISAGE: Hi, Norma!

THIRLWALL: [Laughs]

VISAGE: How are you doing?

THIRLWALL: We’re good. I’ve just been doing a photo shoot in London. Where are you?

VISAGE: I’m in my house in L.A. We’re filming right now so I’m here until August and then I go to Italy for a holiday, which I haven’t had in eight years.

THIRLWALL: Eight years?

VISAGE: Yeah. I’ve got two universities to pay for, my mortgage, and my kids’ rents. So I can’t stop the graft.

THIRLWALL: She works hard for the money.

VISAGE: She does. Okay, so I was able to hear the whole album.

THIRLWALL: Actually?

VISAGE: I’m a Virgo. I do the work. I loved it. It’s fun and dancey and enjoyable. But we’ll get to that in a second. I want to talk about your Glastonbury debut. Talk me through what that was like for you.

THIRLWALL: Yeah, that was nuts. Glastonbury was always on the bucket list, but in my head I was like, it’s going to take a few years to even gain the respect to get that kind of booking. We never managed to do it as Little Mix because those kinds of festivals are a bit funny about girl groups, so when I got the call to do it, I was so emotional. I feel like it shows how far I’ve come and that the music I’m making is paying off.

VISAGE: Well, it should be. I see all the things that you’re up to but I felt a little bit like your auntie there. It was that moment of “I’m so proud of you.” But let’s go back to “Angel of My Dreams.” Obviously the song is great, but the video was really smart and sassy. Little Mix fans know Jade to be the black sheep. You walked a different path than the other girls, and that’s what made you special. Was it important to get your sense of humor across in that video?

THIRLWALL: The first single and the first video was all about showing the world Jade, and not just the Jade from Little Mix. I was also aware that people who listen to my music might not have even heard of Little Mix, so it was like, how do I tell my story in a song and in a visual? How do I create something that squashes 11 years in the music industry into this chaotic, funny moment with as many references as possible? The song is all about my toxic love-hate relationship with the music industry and I’m all about being tongue-in-cheek with it. I wasn’t about to come out swinging with a video that was all, “Woe is me.”

VISAGE: I also like the way that you let people into just how long this has been a dream of yours—going back to the X Factor stuff and your childhood. Is singing the only thing you’ve ever wanted to do? Did you ever have a moment of, like, “If I don’t make it, I want to do XYZ?”

THIRLWALL: I did have a plan B, which was getting a fine arts degree in the hopes of designing theater sets and things like that, but making my own music was always the dream. I come from a very small, working-class northern town. It would’ve been incredibly hard to make my dreams a reality if it weren’t for shows like The X Factor. I tried every other avenue to get there, but I wouldn’t have been able to afford the move to London.

VISAGE: Right.

THIRLWALL: That’s why I wanted to use footage of myself when I was little singing karaoke. Even now, when I watch that video, I get emotional because I’m like, “Wow, it really shows where I started and where I’ve got to.” But it still feels like the beginning. I’m starting my career all over again, and I feel so blessed that I get to do it on my own in my thirties. I’m so much more confident in my skin at this point in my life.

VISAGE: It’s really wise for you to say that. Just because you were in a super popular group doesn’t mean you’re going to be guaranteed solo success. And thank god you had that experience throughout your twenties, because here you are, a grown woman who knows enough to say, “I’m not going to do that.”

THIRLWALL: So true. Back then, we would’ve done whatever it took to make it. That’s not to say I don’t work hard now, but we’ve earned our right to have better boundaries with work-life balance. I’m coming from an era in music when there were still physicals and you would do big TV shows and radio stations. It’s changed a lot because of social media. When I see artists like Chappell Roan standing up for themselves and being like, “I’m not okay with this,” I’m like, “Oh, shit, I forgot that you can actually just say if you don’t want to do something.”

VISAGE: We couldn’t. If somebody did something we didn’t like, we’d have to shut up and take it. So you’re right, you can stand up for yourself, and I encourage that. What do you say to all the kids out there who look up to you, who don’t have the money, the inroads, or the tools to make that dream come true?

THIRLWALL: It doesn’t require a budget to create amazing art. If you’re an amazing songwriter, you’re an amazing songwriter. You just have to work hard. People will have one TikTok hit and be like, “Okay, I’ve made it.” It’s like, “No, no, no, honey.” You have to know what your identity is as an artist. You have to practice your craft and have a whole body of work ready to go. I say that not just as someone that started off with nothing. Even now, with my solo career, I wasn’t walking into labels being like, “Can you tell me who I am?” I was walking in the room and being like, “I’ve written this music. This is what it sounds like. You’d be lucky to sign me, and if you don’t, I’ll find someone else who will.”

VISAGE: You need to know your worth. Jade, do you agree that men get away with more because they’re not in the same limelight? Pop divas, some of them get a bad rap for the way that they treat people. Let’s use Jennifer Lopez as an example. You’ll see a litany of people talking about their experiences with her. Do you stay aware of the team around you?

THIRLWALL: I think it’s really important to have your day ones around you, whether that’s my mom who comes to visit me a lot, or my best friend from school that I still live with. You can’t surround yourself with yes people. Also, you’ll go further if you’re a nice person. You can still be successful and channel that diva energy onstage without being a dick offstage. Treat people with respect, even runners on set, because you never know where they’re going to end up. I’ve been involved in the industry now for 14 years, and I often bump into people who are heads of labels that started off as researchers or A&Rs. Everybody is climbing the ladder. So don’t kick them on your way up because they’ll kick you harder on the way back down.

VISAGE: Amen. Now, I know you’re a girl who loves style and fashion and visuals. Were you in full control of how you wanted to look before the launch?

THIRLWALL: Absolutely. Going into this solo work, it was like, how do I make a stamp through my fashion choices? I’ve curated so many mood boards. There’s a lot of Madonna, Diana Ross—

VISAGE: I love Diana Ross.

THIRLWALL: All the artists who have reinvented themselves time and time again. You can show me an image of Britney and I’ll tell you what album it was from. The artists that have stood the test of time are the ones who have such a strong visual, and I believe that’s just as important as the music. There was a bit of Donna Summer in there for “Fantasy,” the music video I did with David LaChapelle.

VISAGE: What was that like?

THIRLWALL: It was amazing. I wanted to make sure we could reference a Cher and Tina Turner and Bob Mackie moment. We all know that iconic flame dress.

VISAGE: Yes.

THIRLWALL: There’s a lot of trash-chic fashion, which I love day to day. But when you’re in a perfectly fitted gown with beautiful beading and sequins—that’s when you feel like a superstar. I always say to my stylists that we have to create something that the drag queens will want to emulate. When people dress like you on Halloween, that’s when you know you’ve nailed your look.

VISAGE: Let’s talk about That’s Showbiz Baby. It runs the gamut of sounds, which is what I really loved about it. It’s all very you.

THIRLWALL: I think because it was the first record, I was doing a lot of speed dating with producers and writers, finding my people. It’s a bit chaotic—you don’t know what’s coming next. I wanted it to literally feel like I’m rediscovering myself, experimenting with different sounds. There’ll be albums in the future that can sound a lot more sophisticated and cohesive, but That’s Showbiz Baby is meant to feel like I’ve just thrown things at a wall and created this pure pop, joyful record.

VISAGE: You just said it best, except I wouldn’t say throwing things. I think it was more like a tapas platter. There’s something that everybody’s going to love. Like a picky tea.

THIRLWALL: It’s the picky tea of pop albums. [Laughs]

VISAGE: One hundred percent. The album cover is gorgeous, by the way, very ’90s.

THIRLWALL: Yeah, it is. Have you seen the original Willy Wonka?

VISAGE: Abso-freaking-lutely.

THIRLWALL: It’s like the white room where they all shrink into little people. I wanted to show this idea that there are multiple versions of myself, and then there’s the bigger Jade who’s the one in control. Because yeah, I’m a versatile queen, Michelle. I love a bit of everything, so why not show that? I don’t want to pigeonhole myself.

VISAGE: I agree.

THIRLWALL: I have a lot of fun surprising the fans. I love that with every video they’re like, “Oh, fucking hell, what is she going to do next?”

VISAGE: What’s the dream, Jade?

THIRLWALL: To do my own world tour. That’s my ultimate dream.

VISAGE: I don’t think that’s too far off. So dream bigger, go on.

THIRLWALL: I want to be doing this forever. I know everyone says that, but I want to be on stage in 30, 40 years’ time doing the legendary Glastonbury slot and showing everyone that I’ve managed to keep doing this for years and years and years. I look up to artists like Donna, like Janet Jackson, the pop girlies that have stood the test of time. That’s the ultimate goal. I know it’s going to happen because of how hard I work and how much I want it.

VISAGE: You were talking earlier about maybe getting a fine arts degree. Do you paint?

THIRLWALL: I love painting. I don’t really have time at the moment, but I love expressing myself. Sometimes I create the treatments for my videos. Sometimes I draw examples for merchandise. I’m always a part of it. Mom will say, because I’ve been so busy, she’s like, “Do you want to just let someone do it for you for once?” I’m like, “Nope.” I have big Capricorn energy. I want to be across everything because I know how good a job I’ll do with it.

VISAGE: I’m a Virgo, I get it. That’s also trauma, but we’ll get into that later. [Laughs]

THIRLWALL: Yeah, I just have to be across everything because I do genuinely love it. If you’re artistic, you can paint your face well. You can see a creative vision for touring. It really does seep into every part of the pop star world.

VISAGE: I’m going to encourage you not to let other people do your things for you, because being a Virgo, I understand. We’re both earth signs. We can’t have other people do it. Again, that’s trauma also speaking. With that said, I’m going to encourage you to bring a sketch pad with you. Even though your art is coming through your music and your visuals, don’t neglect that fine-art part of you. So maybe one day, if you choose to have children, adopt children, whatever, you’ll be able to design their theater sets for the plays that they’re in. So I’m going to encourage you to feed that part of your soul. Before we wrap, I want to ask, what’s the most British thing about you?

THIRLWALL: I love a cup of tea. I mean, it’s so basic, but anywhere in the world, I’ll take a sandwich bag of Yorkshire tea.

VISAGE: You’re from the north. It has to be Yorkshire. Do you take it just with milk?

THIRLWALL: I take a little bit of oat milk. I’m a healthy queen.

VISAGE: You know I’ve been trained to know the perfect color of a northern brew.

THIRLWALL: You get it. You’re the ultimate Anglophile. You’re one of us now. You’re like Kylie [Minogue]. We forget that she’s Australian.

VISAGE: Well, I’m honored, Jade. Listen, I’m proud of you on a personal level, but as a pop music lover and a dance music lover, I think That’s Showbiz Baby is a wonderful work of art, and I’m so proud of you. I can’t wait to see all of the visuals that come out with all of the singles. I hope you continue doing what you’re doing and staying grounded. Thank you to Norma. It says a lot about how you were raised when you end up as good a kid as you are. You deserve all of the success. I love you so much and I’m so proud of you.

THIRLWALL: Thank you. I love you too. I’m so happy you’ve done this. You are like my second mom.

VISAGE: You got it, my darling. I hope to see you very soon. I’m in London in August and September, so if you’re around, let’s go grab a cuppa.

THIRLWALL: Absolutely.

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Hair: Francis Rodriguez using Oribe.

Makeup: Kye Quinlan.

Nails: Juan Alvear using OPI at Opus Beauty.

Set Design: Lane Vineyard.

Lighting Technician: Billy Cole Landers.

Photography Assistant: Austin Dewitt.

Fashion Assistants: Jackson Prus and Madison Moore.

Production Assistant: Chancey Bridges.

Post-production: Lorenzo Fariello.