Mike Tyson Tells Rosie Perez How a Shamanic Revelation Inspired Him to Fight Jake Paul

 

It’s fair to wonder why Mike Tyson—A.K.A “Iron Mike,” the 58-year-old four-time undisputed heavyweight champion, movie star, and father of seven, not including a semi-famous bengal tiger—is coming out of retirement to get back in the ring against Youtuber-turned-boxer Jake Paul this Friday. When she got on the phone with Tyson last month ahead of the big bout, actor and boxing fanatic Rosie Perez was wondering the same thing. “This fight is not going to change my life or my finances or nothing,” Tyson said. “I’m Mike Tyson. I want to do this.” But it’s not about ego or legacy, he adds. It’s about entertainment (and also the peace of mind Tyson’s acquired from several profound experiences smoking toad venom). “You got a YouTuber that has 70 million fans,” he continued. “And I’m the greatest fighter since the beginning of life, so what does that make? That makes an explosion of excitement.” Accordingly, Netflix is making sure the fight— taking place at AT&T Stadium in Dallas this Friday and streaming globally in five different languages—reaches the widest possible audience. Three weeks into training, Tyson joined Perez for a wide-ranging conversation about his life and career, touching on everything from death and psychedelics to sex addiction and boxing technique.

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MIKE TYSON: What’s up, buddy?

ROSIE PEREZ: Hi. How you doing?

TYSON: I’m doing great. Thanks for asking.

PEREZ: How’s training going?

TYSON: Training is going really well.

PEREZ: How long have you been training for?

TYSON: I’ve been sparring for three weeks.

PEREZ: And you’ve been sparring with taller guys?

TYSON: All kinds of guys. Tall guys, fast guys, big guys.

PEREZ: I’m going to ask you the number one question that everybody keeps asking me: why the hell are you doing this?

TYSON: I don’t know. I’m Mike Tyson. I want to do this. This fight is not going to change my life or my finances or nothing. So I want to test myself and see, “Can I really do it?”

PEREZ: Do you think that Jake Paul has a shot against you?

TYSON: I’m going to take him. I’m not anticipating going there and getting my ass kicked, no.

PEREZ: Well, I have to tell you, I love that you’re doing this. I really do. Now with Jake Paul, had you guys become friends before you decided or—

TYSON: Well, we’ve been working on this for four years.

PEREZ: Oh, wow. Whose idea was it?

TYSON: Mine.

PEREZ: And did he flinch? Or he was like, “Let’s do this”?

TYSON: Well at first he was saying, “You really want to do it?” I said, “Yeah.” He said, “Okay, let’s do it.” Just like that, real simple.

PEREZ: And what do you think about a YouTuber coming into the boxing game? He has a lot of haters.

TYSON: Whenever you’re doing something right, there’s always going to be haters, okay? If you don’t have any haters, you have nothing. Hate attracts more money than love, I’ve noticed in my career.

PEREZ: True that. When he started boxing, I wasn’t sure he was ready to go up against somebody real. And people mistook that as hate. It was like, “Nah, look at what he has done for Amanda Serrano and women’s boxing. You can’t hate on this man.”

TYSON: He has more fans than the champions. He has more fans than everybody but me.

PEREZ: So how do you think this is going to affect your legacy?

TYSON: What do I care about my legacy? I never knew what a legacy was and people started throwing that word around so loosely. A legacy sounds like ego to me. I’m going to be dead soon. Who cares what somebody is going to think about me when I’m dead? We don’t talk about Charles Manson. No one cares about nobody when they’re dead and gone.

PEREZ: Weird comparison, but I’ll take it. How do you think this fight is going to affect culture? It’s so smart for it to be on Netflix because it’s not a pay-per-view event. People who already have Netflix are mad excited, and people will probably sign up for Netflix just for one fight.

TYSON: I’m not saying this from an egotistical perspective. I’m just saying, you got a YouTuber that has 70 million fans. No champion has that many fans. And I’m the greatest fighter since the beginning of life, so now what does that make? That makes an explosion of excitement. And that’s what life is about: making the biggest impact before you die.

PEREZ: I have such mad respect for you because of how you just keep going. You’re living your life and doing what the hell you want to do, and you are winning at it. A lot of fighters step away from the ring and go on to some success, but yours has been explosive. What point in your life changed that?

TYSON: Well, around seven years ago, I tried this spiritual medicine called the toad. You see a toad, you bust its puss, you put it on like a mirror, and it gets hard. You rub it down until it become fine sand, and then you smoke it. Then you meet god. And this is what god told me to do.

PEREZ: What? Okay.

TYSON: I know it sounds strange, but if you do some investigation people will tell you about it.

PEREZ: I have friends who tried it. Did you at least have a shaman with you?

TYSON: Yes, I had a shaman. I’ve done it over 80 times. 90 times, probably.

PEREZ: Oh my gosh. Did you do the whole vomiting and passing out thing?

TYSON: I did that. Well, you only vomit when you eat before you do it.

PEREZ: And you saw god?

TYSON: No, you don’t see him. You feel him.

PEREZ: What was the feeling?

TYSON: Oh, man. That I’m nothing, but I’m everything.

PEREZ: Did that scare you? Did it motivate you?

TYSON: Well, listen. I was scared to death. Because I had a spiritual death; I died. I’ve dealt with death to the closest magnitude I ever could. But once you go through that process, you realize dying is beautiful. How could death be bad and life be beautiful? It’s a total contradiction.

PEREZ: That’s kind of the same concept in religion. I mean, being born again is letting your old self die and giving into a new life. I would be terrified to do that, I have to tell you.

TYSON: It’s good to be afraid because you realize there’s nothing to be afraid of. That’s what the toad is all about: dying with dignity, and not being afraid of dying.

PEREZ: When you’re in that state, are you conscious or subconscious or unconscious?

TYSON: You’re very conscious.

PEREZ: Wow, that’s heavy.

TYSON: Well, I was totally overwhelmed the first time. As soon as I came out, I was screaming, “Where’s my wife? Where’s my family?” But now I’m a professional. I can’t live without it.

PEREZ: Was Kiki with you?

TYSON: Yes. It’s better to do it when someone you love is with you as well as the shaman.

PEREZ: Did she bug out?

TYSON: Well, she cried a little bit. But she tried it as well. Anything that helps me, I give it to my wife, my kids. I gave it to everybody that I love. I gave them the toad.

PEREZ: Do you think that it should become legal as a form of therapeutic medicine?

TYSON: Well, they don’t want it to be legal because we would have a whole different perspective of life. Everybody might start loving each other. And we don’t want that, do we?

PEREZ: That’s why I was so happy when they made weed legal. As you know, I come from abject poverty and had my own mental health issues. I went to see various doctors, spent so much freaking money. And finally this one doctor goes, “Just smoke some weed. You need to just relax and open your mind.” I went home and lit up and I just fell back. I never had a full night’s sleep my entire life until that point.

TYSON: What haunts you?

PEREZ: Memories of the physical abuse I endured and some of the awful things that I have done to people. It fears me and inspires me. When I started studying Shaolin kung fu, it was the first time someone told me, “You need your fear. Fear is your friend. You have to learn to walk with it and talk to it and manage it and understand that it’s your superpower.”

TYSON: I was taught this, Rosie. Fear is your friend, but your mind is not, so you have to control your mind. Most people are not in control of their minds. Their mind is in control of them.

PEREZ: Cus D’Amato was talking about mind control with you, right? That was his main philosophy in winning.

TYSON: 100 percent, yes. He thought the mind was 90% of the success and the physical was only 10%. 

PEREZ: In saying that, what’s your mental preparation? Is it still the same now that you’re older?

TYSON: I don’t think much has changed. Just my self-evaluation. I look in the mirror every day, and it’s not always pretty stuff. Like you say, it’s about things that happened to me and things that I’ve done to people. See, I can’t control what people do to me. But I should have been able to control the things I’ve done to people. I should have known the pain that I felt when people did that to me.

PEREZ: Do you think that the public has moved on? Do you think that they see what I see: Mike 2.0? 

TYSON: It’s none of my business how people perceive me. It’s how I perceive myself. They can think I’m the psycho guy, the prison guy, the fucking guy that didn’t give a fuck and just said anything without a filter. If they believe I’m the guy that’s trying to get my shit together, that’s cool too. But it doesn’t really matter. It only matters what I feel and what I believe in myself.

PEREZ: I was always in defense of you from day one. I would tell people, “He’s a funny motherfucker.” 

TYSON: Really? My wife tells me that.

PEREZ: You are fucking hilarious. Do you remember that time? It was a Deontay Wilder fight at the Barclays Center. You were there with Kiki and we were sitting next to you.

TYSON: The actor guy. He’s a good actor. I seen him on television the other day.

PEREZ: Yeah, Oscar Isaac. He saw me and he’s like, “I want to meet Mike Tyson.” So I go over to you and you’re like, “I don’t know who he is.” Then I said, “Mike, this is Oscar Isaac. He’s a big fan of yours.” And you went, “Okay.” And there was this pregnant pause and I was like, “Mike, he’s a big fan.” And you said, “Okay, yeah,” and you nodded at him. And I said, “Mike, what the fuck?” and you’re like, “What? What you want me to do? Fuck him or something?” Oh my god, everybody cracked up. Oscar Isaac just fucking hightailed it out of there.

TYSON: I like him. He’s a sweet guy, man. He’s just shy. What’s making you happy these days?

PEREZ: Stability, love, my husband.

TYSON: That sounds beautiful.

PEREZ: I’ve learned how to eliminate the toxic waste from people, Mike. I’m a homebody. I had too much excitement when I was young.

TYSON: Yeah, we had enough. Trust me, 90 percent of the population is not going to be able to catch up.

PEREZ: I just want to chill with my husband, my two cats, my sister, and my stupid crazy cousin, Sixto, smoke a fatty and watch the fights. That’s what makes me happy, to be honest.

TYSON: You fought hard for your sanity.

PEREZ: Yeah, I can’t deal with chaos. Where did you and your wife meet?

TYSON: I bit Evander [Holyfield]’s ear so I couldn’t fight nowhere in the world. I was banned from the whole country. I got a chance to fight in Philadelphia and that’s how I met her. She lived in Philadelphia and her father had some political ties, so they got me into a fight. I had my tiger with me, it was still a cub. Everybody came to my room to play with my tiger, and she came as well. She went to touch my tiger, and I went to touch it. We looked each other in the eyes, and we all knew something was going to happen. Boom, I’ve been married for 15 years.

PEREZ: This question I’ve been dying to ask you is, what the fuck made you get a freaking tiger?

TYSON: Listen, I’m in prison. I’m doing time, but I’m coming home. So I’m talking to this guy, he’s my car dealer. He said, “Imagine you in that Ferrari with a tiger in your passenger seat.” I said, “Yeah, hook me up. I want a tiger.” Three tiger cubs arrived, and we raised them. But they lived in my house. They’re not outside cats. You come to my house, I got a 400-pound tiger chilling with me.

PEREZ: But they’re still wild animals. There was never an incident?

TYSON: With someone else, not me. They bit somebody’s arm off once, but this person didn’t know the cat. I never had a problem. They always say this about wild animals: “You can train them, but you can’t tame them.” My cat was tamed. Everywhere I went, my cat came with me. I had her trained like a dog. 

PEREZ: And one of your tigers was featured in The Hangover, correct?

TYSON: No, that wasn’t my cat. That was somebody else’s cat.

PEREZ: Good to know. I love that piece of trivia. My friend, Marci Liroff, told me something. She was a movie producer, and now she’s an intimacy coordinator—

TYSON: That’s awesome. The majority of the world can’t handle intimacy.

PEREZ: Right. Well, she said that after The Hangover, the tattoo artists sued the production company because they didn’t license his original art and the artist won a lot of money.

TYSON: God bless him. I hope he makes more.

PEREZ: Chris Rock wanted me to ask you, are you planning to knock out Jake Paul?

TYSON: Hey, I’m in a fight. I’m defending myself. He’s going to try to hurt me, so I have to try to hurt him.

PEREZ: People need to know that the fight game ain’t nothing to play with.

TYSON: No. When you sign your first professional contract, we all know that it’s a possibility that you could die during training or the fight. It’s not in there, but we know it.

PEREZ: When did your love for UFC start?

TYSON: The first fight. Tank Abbott and those guys.

PEREZ: When it was still called mixed martial arts?

TYSON: Yeah, when they fought to the finish. They were fighting with elbows. My first thought was, “This is fake, this ain’t real.” And then I became a big fan.

PEREZ: The world at large didn’t know how much of a fanatic fan I am of boxing. I used to hide because when I mentioned it, they would say, “How can you support a barbaric sport?”

TYSON: No, it’s a sweet science.

PEREZ: That’s right. It’s fascinating. When you’re in a fight, you have milliseconds to react.

TYSON: Yeah, would you believe that a second is too slow in boxing? It’s like slow-motion.

PEREZ: There’s some people who don’t like Cuban fighters because they say that they’re too technical, but I think that shit is amazing.

TYSON: I’m not saying I’m the best technician, but I’m the most exciting fighter in the world. That’s why everybody is going to come see me. It’s all about putting those asses in the seat. You could be a guy like Arturo Gatti who didn’t want a lot of fights. But every time he fought, he made more money because everybody was going to come see him. 

PEREZ: Like Diego Corrales.

TYSON: Oh, he was good too. He was a very exciting fighter. That’s what this young man, Jake Paul, does. He puts on a show. Boxing is part entertainment and part spiritual. When you fight, you fight with your spirit, your will, your determination. Your skill doesn’t just do it alone. 

PEREZ: Well, Jake Paul is a very smart businessman. I saw him after the Amanda Serrano and Katie Taylor fight. And I have to tell you, I was crying. There’s only a few fights I’ve ever cried at. I cried at that fight because I wanted Serrano to win so badly. I saw Jake Paul and my whole perception of this man changed in an instant. He had tears in his eyes, Mike. I said, “Oh my god, he really loves this sport.” And we shook hands. 

TYSON: Listen, this is the name of the game. Never fall in love with a fighter. It’s happened to me. We fall in love with a fighter and then you become a schmuck.

PEREZ: Well, I was a schmuck for Marvin Hagler when he fought [Sugar Ray] Leonard. But before the Boxing Hall of Fame ceremony, my husband and I were hanging out with Leonard. I said, “Do you miss it?” And he said, “I did and it got me in trouble.”

TYSON: It does get you in trouble. Can I explain that to you? We look for that same natural high. We look for it in cocaine, we look for it in liquor, we look for it in sex. We can’t get it and then we wind up killing ourselves. You have to get it back by loving your family, having responsibility, and learning from your mistakes. That’s the closest you can get. Chasing that high will get you in a lot of trouble.

PEREZ: Did you go through that period?

TYSON: Oh, absolutely. I’ve been through rehabs, I’ve been in jail.

PEREZ: What? You went to rehab?

TYSON: Yeah, holy moly. I’ve been in around 10 or 12 of them. I’m a relapse specialist. I don’t want to say no names, but all these famous friends that I have, I met them in rehab. That’s why we so close. We had a ball, I got to tell you. We had a ball.

PEREZ: Are you concerned about what they say that Jake Paul has knockout power?

TYSON: Well, listen. He got to be able to hit me to knock me out. And that’s going to be hard.

PEREZ: Oh my god. I love it.

TYSON: Let me just explain something to you with that question. Rosie. Do you know I got hit by animals? I got hit by monsters. He can’t hit harder than no one I ever fought. I’m not going to take no punches, but he can’t hit harder than anybody I ever fought.

PEREZ: If you were able to go back in time, is there any fighter you wish you could’ve fought?

TYSON: Absolutely.

PEREZ: Who is it?

TYSON: Me.

PEREZ: You?

TYSON: Yeah. I would want to fight me.

PEREZ: And who do you think would win: the young Mike Tyson or the older Mike Tyson?

TYSON: Well, that’ll never be known. But I would like to see me at my prime fighting me at my prime.

PEREZ: What type of audience do you think is going to come on the night of your fight against Jake Paul?

TYSON: The best audience the world has ever seen.

PEREZ: To me, you’re the headline of the night. If he wasn’t fighting you, it wouldn’t be this epic event. I think people are buying tickets to see Mike Tyson in the ring and that’s no disrespect to Jake Paul. 

TYSON: No, I understand. He understands that too. That’s why we’re doing it.

PEREZ: I think that the demographic is going to be very wide.

TYSON: That’s interesting. There’s kids born 15 years after I retired that know who I am. And I’m very grateful for that. One time, I went to this school to talk to these kids and when I went to the room, the principal had a movie screen showing my fights. Because they didn’t know me as a fighter, they knew me as an actor. So I went in there like, “No, I’m a fighter. I did this too.” And this one kid said, “I think my grandfather told me about you.” It was real humbling.

PEREZ: I always wanted to tell you this. You against Buster Douglas, that was one of the few fights that I cried at.

TYSON: Really? That means a lot.

PEREZ: Mike, no. I didn’t cry out of pity, I cried out of relief. When you said, “I don’t want to do this anymore,” I was like, “Mike wants to live life. Mike wants to move on. Mike wants to see what the universe is going to bring to him next.” I thought it took so much strength for you to admit that. 

TYSON: Rosie, check this out. It’s not being strong, but look where I came from. Me and my family, we lived in abandoned buildings. I won.

PEREZ: That’s what I mean, because there’s a lot of people in the entertainment industry that just keep going and going and going and going and going. Failed relationship after failed relationship after failed relationship. They don’t realize what winning really means.

TYSON: Winning is not going back to prison. Winning is not cheating on my wife. That’s winning to me.

PEREZ: You know my father was a cheater?

TYSON: Cheaters are cool because they could work on themselves. But most people are afraid to work on themselves. At the end of the game, a cheater feels like killing himself because he lost everything he loved and he don’t even know why. He doesn’t even know why he wants to screw this girl. He’s just sick.

PEREZ: I asked my father that. He said the same thing. I said, “Daddy, why do you cheat?” He went, “I don’t know. I love women.” And he looked so sad. He started crying.

TYSON: No, no. He doesn’t love women. He has a love and sex addiction like everybody else. We give them the sex, but we don’t want the sex. We want intimacy. It’s got nothing to do with sex. 

PEREZ: I know not all of this is just from the toad…

TYSON: No, I had to do a lot of work. The toad helped tremendously. My sobriety coach who kept me sober, I gave him the toad too. He’s changed his life.

PEREZ: What is the most important life lesson that the boxing ring has offered you?

TYSON: That pretty much everybody you start with, you won’t finish with. Everybody that helps you is not your friend, and everybody you fight is not your enemy.

PEREZ: I know we’re coming to the end of our time, but I just want to say that I love you. I’m excited to see you back in the ring.

TYSON: Thank you very much. I won’t let you down.

PEREZ: I know you won’t. We both made it out. 

TYSON: Hey, life isn’t over yet. We’re still fighting. We only make it out on the day of our death. There’s no way I should be here talking to you right now. All my friends are dead. They OD’d, they had AIDS. Me and my friend both had sex with this girl at the same time and they both died of AIDS. I didn’t catch AIDS. Raw, too.

PEREZ: That’s crazy. You have a spirit hovering over you.

TYSON: Amen. It’s something, sister.