Meet CMAT, the Irish Pop Star Who Inspired TikTok’s Woke Macarena

CMAT, the Irish-born country-pop disruptor who labels herself “the John Waters of pop music,” is staring straight into the storm of her breakout year. On the heels of a career-making set at Glastonbury, with a third studio album, Euro-Country, on the way, the 29-year-old Dubliner’s wry and witty lyricism has proven polarizing—and immensely popular. In her latest and biggest hit to date, “Take a Sexy Picture Of Me,”  she yearns, with a wink to be photographed as a kind of Lolita figure. “I would be lying if I said that I was completely shocked by the success of the song,” she told me last week. A growing legion of fans have found themselves laughing along with the musician, who has a knack for pinpointing emotional specifics; others simply see her as a “nonce.” CMAT, however, is rolling with the punches. I caught up with her a week after her debut on the Pyramid Stage to talk about her stellar performance, Gwyneth Paltrow’s GOOP kitchen, and stanning Lana del Rey.

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BEN FREEMAN: How are you?

CMAT: I’m good, how are you?

FREEMAN: I’m good. This is so random. I’m not sure if this was communicated to you, but we’ve actually met very briefly. It was like three months ago at a lock-in at La Camionera and it was the night after my ex-boyfriend and I had broken up. And you gave me this—

CMAT: Yes, yes! Oh my god, it’s you! Oh my god!

FREEMAN: Yeah!

CMAT: How’s that going?

FREEMAN: I mean, we’re getting there, but it’s so nice to be talking to you again.

CMAT: I wouldn’t have recognized you either because of drunk facial recognition, but I know exactly who you are. Oh my god.

FREEMAN: It’s so crazy. It felt almost like guardian angel vibes. I feel like being surrounded by lesbians at La Camionera was exactly what I needed.

CMAT: It tends to be exactly what we need in these situations.

FREEMAN: Well, you’ve had a crazy last week. How are you feeling?

CMAT: This time last week I would’ve been walking off the Pyramid Stage.

FREEMAN: Oh my gosh.

CMAT: So I’m processing.

FREEMAN: How did you feel?

CMAT: When I walked off the Pyramid Stage, I walked behind a sofa and collapsed and hid away. It was this weird instinct. I crawled up in a ball and closed the door and told everyone to not come in, because I just wanted to be really small and have no one see me for a while.

FREEMAN: Fair. But was it a nice feeling, I hope? 

CMAT: I wouldn’t say it was a nice feeling. I would just say it was pure shock. When I was on the stage, I loved it. And then I came off and I was like, “What am I doing? Why did I do that?” [Laughs] It was very scary.

FREEMAN: I mean, I wasn’t at Glastonbury, but I watched your set and it was just so amazing. It’s so special to see a set like this at this point of your career. I had a friend who was at the set, and she’s Irish, and she was like, “It brought me to tears.” So I hope you’re very proud. This was such a big moment for you, right?

CMAT: It was huge. There is nothing bigger. I suppose the wheels are set in motion for something like this from the beginning of your career. 

FREEMAN: What was the journey that led you to this?

CMAT: We played the Pilton party, a smaller festival that Glastonbury puts on for the residence of Pilton to say thank you for dealing with us. I met Emily Eavis there, and we got along really well. She was like, “Would you like to play the festival next year?” I was like, “Of course. Are you crazy?” But she didn’t say what it was going to be. And my agent came back to me with all these stage options, and I was like, “I want to do the Pyramid Stage.” A couple of people advised against it, like, “I don’t know if you should try to play the Pyramid Stage because you might blow your load.” It’s kind of the biggest thing you can do and there’s no upward trajectory from there. I was just like, “I’ve been working nonstop for five years now. You don’t know what’s going to happen in this life and in the world. So if there’s a Pyramid Stage, I’ll fucking take it.” Since Emily gave it to us in November, I’ve been acting like a bridezilla about it, a little bit. Basically, my entire life has been just angling towards the Piza, which is what I was calling it. It’s all I could talk about or think about.

FREEMAN: Right.

CMAT: Sorry, I have hay fever. I was at Lana Del Rey last night. I have no voice.

FREEMAN: I’m going to Lana Del Rey tonight. How was she?

CMAT: Or should I say, the Addison Rae headline before. They were amazing. But Lana could be shit and I would still be like, “That was amazing.”

FREEMAN: I know. I got some feedback from people last night like, “It wasn’t her best set,” And I was like, “It doesn’t matter. You’re seeing Lana Del Rey.”

CMAT: I loved the show and I love her songs maybe more than I love anyone else’s songs in the world. Although, I love the Honeymoon album, and that bitch will never play a song off Honeymoon again.

FREEMAN: I know, which is bad, isn’t it?

CMAT: I mean, my favorite Lana record is Did You Know there’s a Tunnel Under Ocean Blvd, and she only played one song off it. Criminal. She might play it tonight though. She’s been changing her set list a lot. 

FREEMAN: Fingers crossed. But you were saying bridezilla at Glastonbury, and I love that as a concept.

CMAT: Yeah. I spent so long studying Pyramid Stage sets. With this, I was taking vengeance. This might sound bitchy, but I really wanted a list of what people had done wrong as well. And the common thread I noticed was people who are signed to major labels and have creative teams were always doing something special. “We’re bringing in a special guest, we have dancers, we have a string section, we have props.” That’s when it went wrong and you see the artist break their stance with the audience. The people who I saw do good shows in the last 10 years were weirdly American artists who didn’t know that Glastonbury was an important show, so they just do the set that they’ve always been doing.

FREEMAN: And do it well. 

CMAT: Whatever show I planned, I wanted to have done it at least 15 times live before we got to Glastonbury. And then I learned that for daytime, you can’t really have a light show or production. So I hired an extra band member so we’re a seven piece country band, and spent an enormous amount of money and thought on costumes. I was like, “It’s going to be costume, costume, costume.” It has the theatrical pantomime elements of Eurovision, stuff like ripping off skirts and all that stupid bullshit that I just love because I’m a stupid cunt. But then it’s also from a live music point of view, because I love live music and I don’t love the pop direction of a lot of alt music these days. I love pop music, but I don’t love live pop music. Weirdly, one of the best shows I’ve seen is the Girls Aloud show in The O2 in London last year.

FREEMAN: Wow.

CMAT: And it was fucking incredible because it was actually live vocals. There was no live tuning technology or vocal processing that I could hear. I love the sound of a live vocal under a big PA. So I just stuck to my guns and did the show that I’ve been doing. Like, let’s not try to be super bombastic and just let my band’s personality shine through and let them improvise if they want to. Because that’s essentially how I made it. There’s no tracks or pre-recorded stuff, my band is actually playing live. So it’s quite loosey goosey in terms of the music that you hear out front. That’s why they’re such a compelling band to watch, because they’re all actually having fun and doing stupid bullshit in between expressing themselves musically. Everything is all us.

FREEMAN: Yeah. I love the way that you described your bandmates because you can see the characters of this ensemble really well on stage. I’d love to ask about your most recent single, “The Jamie Oliver Petrol Station,” which you described on stage with a meditation on hatred. Have you heard anything about it from Jamie Oliver or his camp? Not that it’s necessarily a diss track, but I would love to know what he thinks of it.

CMAT: Silence.

FREEMAN: Silence.

CMAT: Were you silent or silenced? Silence. And it’s funny because I’ve done a lot of podcasts recently with food people, because I love food. I ask them all, and they’re just like, “We don’t know. He’s being weirdly silent on the issue,” and I find that intoxicating. I need to know why, because I’m not shitting on him.

FREEMAN: No, not at all.

CMAT: I don’t know him. I don’t know his personality. He’s used as a totem for the point I’m trying to get across. I use films for that a lot. I use famous people, I use geographical locations. That’s always how I’ve written. I’m just using what I know about his persona to get a point across. But I guess the answer is maybe he fucking hates it.

FREEMAN: No, he loves it.

CMAT: I feel like if he liked it, he would’ve reached out after Piza and been like, “Oh my god, ha ha ha.” I would’ve been happy to talk to him, but apparently absolutely not.

FREEMAN: And then the other song which has taken on a life of its own is “Take a Sexy Picture of Me.” Were you surprised by the TikTok of it all? It’s such a hit, and seeing it on stage felt so magic as well. 

CMAT: I would be lying if I said that I was completely shocked by the success of the song. I wrote and produced it to be really commercial-sounding on purpose because I thought that that was funny. With lyrics this uncomfortable and gross about the painful pitfalls of commercial attractiveness, I thought it would be funny to make it a really easily accessible pop song. And now people are getting in touch like, “We love this song. We can’t wait to hear what’s next for CMAT.” And I’m like, “Babe, nothing else on the record sounds like this.” If I look at it holistically, it’s low-key the worst song in the live show because it was designed to be a radio song. I love performing it, and I love seeing people do the stupid little fucking dance, but it has put me in a funny spot where people go to the rest of my discography and they’re like, “This is shit.” There were loads of comments under “Jamie Oliver” like, “What the fuck is this?” And I love that. 

FREEMAN: I found it really funny, because that song is in reaction to getting cruel Instagram comments and you’re hitting the hammer on the head like, “Are you not putting it together?” 

CMAT: To have half of the population who’ve heard the song to instantly get it and the other half be like, “Check the hard drive. She’s a nonce,” is incredible. It makes me feel like I’m the John Waters of pop music. People on TikTok have literally been like, “She needs to be arrested for these pedo lyrics.” It’s actually a bit of a double-edged sword how many people have something to say about my physical appearance and my weight. Obviously, it’s not pleasant for me to experience people constantly pointing out how fat and ugly I am because that’s what they believe. But I know that my physical appearance and the way that I’ve just carried on in spite of it has also brought in a crowd of people who see themselves in that. That’s been a weird boost to my career that I haven’t had any control over, because there’s a lot of conversations about body positivity and stuff. And not for nothing, but I’ve not really been that body positive, especially in my music. I’m often just going in on myself for the way I look. I wouldn’t consider myself body positive. I’m just someone that has a body and… just has it. Like, Leonard Cohen probably never had to deal with people calling him brave for singing songs.

FREEMAN: Body-positivity legend, Leonard Cohen.

CMAT: He was so un-body positive as well. He had a lot of insecurities about the way he looked. I know from people that lived in Montreal around the time of his death that he didn’t eat and was very vain and was always weighing himself. Nobody ever said he was brave. Do you know what I mean? It’s just this weird element of my success that’s about me just moving through a society that is not made for women that fall outside the realms of commercial attractiveness. Which, if I have to say that sentence one more time my brain will explode. It’s all I’m ever talking about. It’s crazy that this is such a big conversation because I have a lot of other things to say in my music as well, but I can’t control what people are more interested in, so I’m happy either way.

FREEMAN: Definitely, and I’m sure relaying that slogan becomes a bit annoying. Also, “John Waters of pop music,” that should be the bloody slogan. Now you have a lot of tour dates coming up and you’re going to be very busy. What’s your tour secret sauce? 

CMAT: The number one recommendation I have for people on tour is to only hire band and crew members that you would go for pints with. It’s a very sentimental and earnest thing to say, but that is the number one cure. They’re all personality hires, and that really fucking helps. Another thing is, I am a big food girl. The people in my comments who have a lot to say about my weight are like, “Yeah, I’m sure you are.” Happens every time. I do food podcasts. But I love food and I’m excited for the possibility of our American tour. And I say the possibility because at this current moment, with the level of activism me and the CMAT fans have been getting involved in, I’m not 100% certain that we’re getting in.

FREEMAN: Grim.

CMAT: But if we do get into America—fingers crossed because I love that country—I will be surveying all of the fast food joints and I hope to return in October with scurvy. I love Raising Canes. Have you ever had Raising Canes?

FREEMAN: No. What’s a Raising Cane?

CMAT: Raising Canes is just chicken. They literally have nothing on the menu. It’s chicken fingers and bread and waffle fries and one type of sauce.

FREEMAN: Perfect.

CMAT: I love it, and I love taco trucks in Los Angeles. Sorry, I’m just talking about food now. I really hope I get back into America. Free Palestine, but let me in.

FREEMAN: Easy.

CMAT: Free Palestine and let me in. Do you know what’s amazingly good? I have a kind of snarky line about this woman on my forthcoming album, but I don’t really mean it. Gwyneth Paltrow’s goop Kitchen takeaway. Here’s the thing, do I agree with goop culture? No. But do I agree with a gluten-free pizza? And basically her solulu for gluten-free pizza was that the pizza base is essentially one big crispy gnocchi.

FREEMAN: No notes on that. That’s perfect.

CMAT: It’s fucking amazing. It’s all fresh ingredients because she’s being wanky about it or whatever, but it actually tastes nicer. And the salads from there as well are delicious. She’s got this big beefy salad with a topping that is Rice Krispies drizzled in maple syrup on top of an Asian salad. The Goop Kitchen is fucking amazing. It’s not my culture, but I love it.

FREEMAN: I’m obsessed with that. A gorgeous note to leave it on.

CMAT: I hate to be giving free intensive promo in Interview mag, but like, holy shit. Gwyneth, get me on the phone. We need to talk.

FREEMAN: This has been a delight. Thank you so much for chatting. 

CMAT: Thank you. I might see you at La Camoinera  again.

FREEMAN: Oh, I literally can’t wait.