“I Put Tits in My Movie”: Alexi Wasser, in Conversation With Janicza Bravo

“Have you ever seen Sex and the City?” asks Stella, the protagonist of Alexi Wasser’s directorial debut, Messy. “No,” smirks the 20-something bartender who she’s brought back to her Tudor City apartment. In Wasser’s own words, Messy is “a coming-of-age story about a woman who should have already come of age.” In the movie, Wasser stars as perhaps a “messier” version of herself. Stella is consciously trying to be Carrie Bradshaw, sleeping her way through New York in the hopes of penning an article about her escapades for a fictional magazine, the editor of which is portrayed by iconic SATC alum Mario Cantone. Messy was born of Wasser’s daily write-ups of memorable customers she encountered while working at the A.P.C. on Mercer, as well as  her father’s death, and what she calls her “never-ending quest for love.” She cites Party Girl, An Unmarried Woman, and Last Days of Disco as inspirations. Earlier this week, Wasser got on Zoom with her friend, Zola director Janicza Bravo, to discuss her mother’s reaction to her on-screen nudity and whether or not she ever wants to make a movie again. Much like this interview, “It’s a bit meta.”

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JANICZA BRAVO: Congratulations on your movie!

ALEXI WASSER: Thank you! Can we tell people you’re wearing a facial mask right now? 

BRAVO: It’s vitamin C-infused.

WASSER: We’re women of a certain age. We gotta keep it tight. 

BRAVO: So I think there were two things happening to me as I was watching your movie.

WASSER: Uh-oh.

BRAVO: One, they felt so close to your own stories, right? And so there’s a good deal of overlap in your first year of moving to New York, a story, but also your relationship to love, wanting love, wanting to be loved, your quest for love. And I went back and watched it again because I was like, “Did I dream this? This is Alexi.” And I think even if someone doesn’t know you, the writing is fantastic, by the way.

WASSER: Thank you.

BRAVO: Where did it start?

WASSER: Right before lockdown, I had a nervous breakdown in Los Angeles, had a horrible breakup, dove into quarantine, pandemic lockdown living, which I fucking loved. I had this whole existential crisis and I thought, “What am I doing here?” “I don’t want to act anymore. I don’t want to write anymore.” I’d sold shows that never got made. I was totally disheartened and was like, “What do I even want for myself?” I’d always wanted to live in New York. And when restrictions were lifted, I bought a one-way ticket to New York.  I needed a job. You hemorrhage money living in New York City. And I remember you had told me you worked at A.P.C. a long time ago, at the Mercer location, and I thought, “I love the elegant simplicity of A.P.C. and if my chic friend Janicza once worked at A.P.C. I’m in.”

BRAVO: [Laughs]

WASSER: All the other people who worked there were like 21 years old. I felt like their cool aunt, which is actually what I’ve wanted to be my entire life. I’ve got cool aunt energy.

BRAVO: [Laughs] You really do.

WASSER: And at the end of every day at A.P.C., you have to do this write-up about your most meaningful sales encounter of the day. 

BRAVO: Oh, that’s new.

WASSER: All the other people who worked there would write like one sentence: “Person came into the store, bought denim.” 

BRAVO: Were your end-of-day write-ups getting graded by your manager or anyone?

WASSER: Well, mine kept getting chunkier and chunkier, to the point where the head of A.P.C. came to visit the store.

BRAVO: Who is that? 

WASSER: Some French guy from HQ came down to the store and went, “Are you the funny girl who’s writing all these stories that we’ve been reading? We love them.” And I was ecstatic. I was like, “Really?” He was like, “Yes, but they’re getting a bit too long. This is a clothing store.” 

BRAVO: Complementing, but still trying to silence you.

WASSER: [Laughs] Exactly. But that’s how I fell in love with writing again. And after that, I was like “I gotta get out of here.” So I wrote a coming of age story about a woman who should have already come of age. Newly single and all her humiliating hookups. 

BRAVO: When’s the last time you dated?

WASSER: I don’t even know. I think I blocked it out. I was just saying to one of my friends, “Wow, when it comes to dating, it’s so exciting to discover all the different ways you can be disappointed!” But when I first moved to New York, oh my god. I think I had my version of a midlife crisis, where I was promiscuous and gallivanting around town. I felt like I was 21 again, just getting into all these wild shenanigans.

BRAVO: How do you feel about your movie?

WASSER: I’m proud of it. I feel it’s very me. I think I achieved what I wanted to achieve. It was the hardest thing I’ve ever done in my life, by the way. Why didn’t you tell me this?

BRAVO: I did tell you. I think I told you it was lonely.

WASSER: It was the loneliest.

BRAVO: The big takeaway for me from your film is this line, which I think comes from one of your friends: “Just because it’s not in the form of a boyfriend, it doesn’t mean that you are not loved.” As you trip through one experience into the next, that’s the lesson, right? That the love that you are looking for in an individual, a lot of that love might actually already be there for you.

WASSER: Ione Skye said that in the movie. But it was really from my mom, because this is a heightened version of my real life.

BRAVO: I noticed.

WASSER: I would call my mom in between all my disappointing dalliances or one night stands or attempts at love—

BRAVO: Did you tell your mother in detail?

WASSER: Oh my god, yeah. 

BRAVO: You guys have that relationship.

WASSER: Oh yes. And that dialogue that Ione says, “Just because it’s not in the form of a boyfriend, you’re still so loved and fight the programming of your body because every time you have sex, your body’s going to tell you as a woman, mate for life, mate for life. But that’s just programming. Fight that. Be aware of that.” That’s shit my mom would tell me when I was spiraling over some guy. My mom was in an ‘80s rock band called Precious Metal, and a band called Promises in the ‘70s, and my dad was a lothario and loved women. And so I think my upbringing was very much just too much talk about sex and rendezvous and all that kind of stuff. But I’m grateful because I can have those kinds of conversations with my mom and she gives me all the advice that she had to give to herself. 

BRAVO: Has your mom seen the movie?

WASSER: She has. She was like, “Must you be naked so much?” 

BRAVO: Your bosom is very featured. Nice tits.

WASSER: [Laughs] Thank you very much. That’s all I was waiting for you to say during this interview. 

BRAVO: My only critique of seeing breasts as much as I saw your breasts—

WASSER: Too much?

BRAVO: No, I just have a rule that if you’re going to show me ladies, I want to see boys.

WASSER: Oh, like dicks?

BRAVO: Yeah. I want nude parity because a man’s chest is not a woman’s breast, right? So I want nude parity.

WASSER: But that’s the thing, I don’t want to see a dick.

BRAVO: A dick, by the way, is much more abrasive than boobs.

WASSER: It’s so abrasive. Plus I wanted it to be in line with the movies it’s inspired by An Unmarried Woman, Last Days of Disco, Girlfriends, Looking for Mr. Goodbar, Party Girl, Swingers. No dicks in those movies. But I think breasts are beautiful. But in Zola, there are dicks.

BRAVO: Yeah. There’s no lady nudity in Zola.

WASSER: You put dicks in your movie, I put tits in my movie. 

BRAVO: One of my favorite lines is, “I don’t want kids. I’m still raising myself.” Are you still raising yourself?

WASSER: I am. I’m learning to not be so mean to myself. I’m treating myself like I’m the kid that I don’t have. I’m getting into slightly less trouble dating-wise because I don’t have a willingness to suffer fools as easily as I did maybe a year ago, even. I’m moving towards the warmth. For a long time I kept instigating, trying to get something going, whether romantic or friendship. And now I’m like, “Fuck that. I’m going towards the warmth. I’m going towards the people who love me. 

BRAVO: Go where you are desired.

WASSER: It feels a lot better. I’m sick of being the meanest person to myself.

BRAVO:  And kids?

WASSER: That’s something the character is trying to figure out. But me I don’t want kids. That became clear after I made this movie, actually. I take having kids so seriously, I didn’t have one. This movie is my baby.

BRAVO: You said that making the movie was incredibly hard and we talked about how lonely it was. I’m curious, what was the lesson around making the film?

WASSER: This was my film school, I learned so much. All the intricacies, every detail, problem solving, how to interact with people, so much communicating of what you want. That’s it, bringing the story to life by communicating what you want to all the different people involved, so they can help you do that.

BRAVO: What was the experience of making the film and also being in the film and getting what you needed?

WASSER: I loved it. I was unbelievably stressed out. But I actually loved the acting part because I got to lose myself a little bit. I was scared to act with Adam Goldberg and Mario Cantone and Ione Skye because I look up to them so much, but they were so wonderful. So yeah, stressful but good stress because it mattered so much. The rest of the world disappeared. Right before making the movie, my father had died, and I went into pre-production right afterwards. I had to compartmentalize my grief, dive right into pre-production, and start shooting. 

BRAVO: How did you handle grieving and making at the same time?

WASSER: I chain-smoked. 

BRAVO: Did you smoke practicals or were you smoking digitals? I just can’t stand vaping. 

WASSER: I started vaping for a moment, and then somebody looked at me and I went, “I know. What am I doing?” Humiliating.

BRAVO: I think you did vape in L.A.

WASSER: No.

BRAVO: I feel like you were.

WASSER: I chain-smoked purple Capri cigarettes. 

BRAVO: You grieved by smoking.

WASSER: I mean, I was in the room with my dad holding his hand when he passed away. And how did I grieve? I don’t know. I just pushed it aside. I still need to get to it. I’ll let you know when I get there. That’s another funny thing. There isn’t a time limit on grieving. And it’s like, people give you a little bit of time, but then they’re like… 

BRAVO: It’s like, “Oh, is that an experience you’re still having?”

WASSER: Exactly! Another interesting way I’m working through the grieving process is  my dad’s a photographer and he took lots of beautiful photos of Joan Didion and Marcel Duchamp and Eve Babitz, all these incredible photos.

BRAVO: One of my favorite photos ever is of your dad’s.

WASSER: Of the ladies at the counter?

BRAVO: The women sharing the stool at the counter.

WASSER: I love that photo, too. I’m in charge of his photo archive now, which is a blessing. But I’ve had to go through all the storage units and clean them out, and I’m getting to know my father after he’s died, which is fascinating and such a beautiful thing that I’m so grateful for. I was in my dad’s archive in Los Angeles, going through all of his stuff, separating the personal from the fine art, he was a photojournalist too. 

BRAVO: Is there a photo you found that you’ve never seen?

WASSER: I have now seen so many photos of my father’s dick.

BRAVO: Stop.

WASSER: Yes. Selfies are nothing new, apparently! People were doing it analog, my dad included. 

BRAVO: You should make a book of your dad’s dick.

WASSER: [Laughs] Alright, calm down.

BRAVO: I mean, I think it feels like there’s an art piece there. This is a hot seller.

WASSER: Yeah, I’m really getting to know my father as I go through his archives, so that’s been interesting. That’s another thing. I had such a bizarre upbringing, but I’ve forgiven him for anything I was mad at him for because I’m like, “Jesus Christ, I’m however old I am now, a thousand, I can’t even imagine having a kid now. There’s no rule book. No playbook. He did the best he could. He’s a flawed person. As am I. If I met him at a bar, I’d probably…”

BRAVO: Not you about to say you’d probably hook up with your dad.

WASSER: No! Jesus Christ! All I’m saying is, he was a very interesting guy. What I mean is, If I met him at a bar, I would have thought he was a very charming charismatic guy and talked and laughed for hours.

BRAVO: Right. So what’s next?

WASSER: As lonely and difficult as it was, making a movie. I can’t wait to do it again. 

Messy is having its New York premiere at The Downtown Festival on Saturday, October 5th, 7:30pm at the Roxy Cinema.