Let Molly Baz Cook

Molly Baz always wanted to be a Californian, or at least knew that’s where she belonged. To be fair, she has the glow of someone born in sunshine, an openness and relaxed nature that feels distinctly Californian (or, as I noted when we met for lunch at S&P earlier this week, Australian). You’d never know that Molly grew up in Upstate New York. Maybe you would; I didn’t. I only knew the Molly that I’d seen on Instagram and YouTube, the one from Bon Appetit. The one making maximalist flavor bomb recipes with names that defy the conventions of American English. I didn’t know that she raised sheep, but in her heart, even while she was dressing them up in purple tutus, she always knew she was not that girl. She dreamt of sunshine, convertibles, and palm trees. In 2020, amidst the pandemic, she left New York for L.A. She built her dream home and bought a beautiful butter-colored convertible. Last year, —piece by piece, pan by pan, all while building her own condiment empire, Ayoh, and raising a son and a weiner dog named Tuna. Molly Baz is proof that you can be whoever you want to be. Block out the noise. Just let her cook.

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J LEE: You order.

MOLLY BAZ: Okay, so we’re going to do the tuna melt, the matzoh ball soup, and the flatiron delight with pastrami. Well, unless you prefer corned beef.

LEE: I’m good with pastrami. Let’s do a peanut butter and bacon sandwich as well, if you haven’t had it, you should try it, it’s special.

BAZ: Okay, let’s do it.

LEE: I woke up feeling freaky. How long are you in town?

BAZ: I’m leaving right after this. I lived in New York for a very long time, and now I’m always staying at hotels because I’m here for work. It just makes me feel like such a tourist  and I don’t want to ever feel like a tourist in New York. But I don’t live here anymore, so it’s hard for it to feel natural.

LEE: If you were a tourist and had one meal in New York, which restaurant are you going to?

BAZ: Honestly, we might be sitting in it. S&P. I loved the original [Eisenbergs], and I love the way they revived it.

LEE: It’s amazing. They treated this place with such respect.

BAZ: I know. I love how it feels as old as ever. 

LEE: Where did you used to live in New York?

BAZ: I lived all over. I lived on East Sixth Street when I first moved to New York. My East Village moment—tiny, fifth floor walk up, two roommates. Then I moved to Williamsburg. Then South Williamsburg, and then South Second. And finally, I moved to Greenpoint. I left New York during the pandemic.

LEE: Greenpoint is crazy now.

BAZ: I know, it’s all changed so much. Basically I wanted to move to Greenpoint because I love Bernie’s. I was like, “I want to live above Bernie’s. I want that to be my life.” And we happened to find a place right on the block. So that’s another landmark for me that’s like, if we have the time, we always go back to Bernie’s. The vinegar chicken is a perfect dish.

LEE: It’s great.

BAZ: I love their shrimp cocktail. And then I always just get a beer because the steins are so frosty. I love a chilled beer glass. So anyway, I left Bernies, and moved to L.A. during the pandemic. 

LEE: What do you think of this matzoh ball?

BAZ: That’s a fluffy ball. Shit.

LEE: That’s the quote.

BAZ: I just looked over and that guy had his sandwich and was straight up just licking it. That’s such an insane way to eat a sandwich.

LEE: Maybe he doesn’t have teeth. That’s how my cat would do it.

BAZ: That’s so true. I should not be judging. He may have no teeth. 

LEE: It’s been crazy watching your career, from your test kitchen days to where you’re at now. Did you ever think you’d be on a billboard in Times Square?

BAZ: No way. I did go see it in person, and that was pretty special. I mean, talk about touristy things to do: seeing yourself in Times Square.

LEE: I mean, it’s a huge milestone.

BAZ: Totally. So I permit myself to go to Times Square for that.

LEE: Your birthday’s almost the same as mine.

BAZ: Oh, really? What’s yours?

LEE: May 12th.

BAZ: May 9th.

LEE: Taurus gang.

BAZ: I weirdly never cared about astrology until I had a child and everyone would be like, “What sign is he?” Or, “When is he due?” And I was like, “June 3rd.” and they’d be like “Oh, oh my god, he’s going to be a Gemini.” And I was like, “Yeah, so what does that even mean?” And they were like, “Two faced. A split personality.”

LEE: [Laughs] They’re telling you your son’s going to be a psychopath.

BAZ: Basically. And I was like, “I don’t believe in this shit anyway.” And now I have him and I’m like, “Oh, got it.”

LEE: He’s a psychopath. 

BAZ: Yeah, he’s a verified psychopath, I can tell. He’s one-and-a-half. [Laughs] No, but I can just tell he’s going by the beat of his own drum. One second he’s in, the next second he’s out. Very flippant, even at one and a half. And I’m like, “Oh, so I guess the zodiac stuff is real.”

LEE: Taurus is like the pleasure sign. They love food. They love nice things. And of course, we love mayonnaise.

BAZ: They love S&P Lunch. Tuna melts are really big for Tauruses.

LEE: No, not this Taurus.

BAZ: What don’t you like about tuna?

LEE: I think it was one of those things when I was a little kid, my sister really liked tuna. So then I decided that I hated tuna.

BAZ: Out of defiance?

LEE: I guess. What were you like growing up?

BAZ: My thing was being the unproblematic child. My brother was more challenging and a bit more defiant. He went through a lot of different phases and looks and tried on a lot of different personalities in his life.

LEE: Is he older or younger?

BAZ: He’s older. And I think as a counterpoint to that I was like, “I’m just going to be the easy chill one. Don’t worry about me.” Now everything is very different and we’ve all figured out our own personalities and places in the world.

LEE: He’s your only sibling?

BAZ: No, I have a sister as well. She lives in upstate New York.

LEE: You’re in the middle?

BAZ: I’m the baby.

LEE: Oh, of course you’re the baby.

BAZ: Can I have a bite of your sandwich?

LEE: It’s not my sandwich. We’re sharing.

BAZ: I felt like this was yours.

LEE: No, it’s ours. I mean, the tuna melt is certainly yours. I don’t like tuna and you don’t like chocolate.

BAZ: Hate it. You did your research. It’s a thing that I hid about myself for a really long time because I was afraid that people wouldn’t trust me. You know how they always say, “Don’t trust a skinny chef”?

LEE: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

BAZ: But also, don’t trust a chef that doesn’t like chocolate because it’s probably one in a million people that don’t like chocolate. And I think that most people assume that everyone in the world likes chocolate because it’s just a beloved treat. And I fucking hate it.

LEE: It’s cooler to dislike something that’s beloved than something that everyone kind of dislikes. 

BAZ: It’s actually been challenging because in my work I’m a recipe developer, and people want chocolate recipes. And I have been like, “Sorry, no. I’m not going to do it because I don’t think it tastes good.” Until recently, I realized that I’m withholding something that people love so much and all that’s doing is putting distance between me and my readers. So I do it now, but I do it in a very specific way. For example, I developed a chocolate chip cookie that went crazy.

LEE: What was the chocolate chip cookie?

BAZ: It was a brown butter pistachio halva chocolate chunk.

LEE: Oh, yeah. I saw that on Kimmel, right?

BAZ: Yeah, maybe. It’s maybe one of the most made recipes of mine of all time, which is disappointing to me because I’m like, “Really, you guys are going to make the chocolate one more than anything else?” But all this to say, people really went crazy when I put out my first chocolate recipe and I developed the entire recipe without the chocolate. I nailed the cookie, taste, texture, everything. And then, in the final hour, I did a test of it by folding in chocolate to make the chocolate chip version of it. And then I fed it to all of my friends like, “Does this check out? What’s the vibe?” So I was able to support the development of it up until the last moment when the chocolate came in. And then I was like, “It’s off my plate now. If you guys like it, we’ll ship it.”

LEE: And that’s when you know you’re a real chef: when you’re making something you don’t even like and it tastes good.

BAZ: This is a delicious sandwich. It’s maybe even better than the Langer’s number 19, because it’s hot.

LEE: Have you ever been to Australia? I have to ask.

MOLLY BAZ: No.

LEE: Do people think you’re Australian?

BAZ: No. Where are you getting that?

LEE: Just my own theories about the way you use language. You’re always shortening the words and abbreviating things, it’s so Australian. Like how you call mortadella “morty d.” You could be Australian. My wife is Australian.

BAZ: That’s very true. But interestingly, no one has ever asked me that until now.

LEE: Really?

BAZ: Never. My whole life people have assumed that I was born and raised in L.A., but I grew up in upstate New York, in Rhinebeck, New York. Country live-in, upstate girly.

LEE: You know the Sheep and Wool Festival?

BAZ: Yeah.

LEE: Oh, I love the Sheep and Wool Festival.

BAZ: At the fairgrounds. I actually used to have sheep. I was in 4-H, and I had a sheep that had the ear tag and was mine. I trained it and I showed it at the county fair. They would always do costume contests. I think I won the costume contest for my sheep once.

LEE: What was the costume for the sheep?

BAZ: It was in a little purple tutu. I made a ballerina. But yeah, I was a sheep girl back in the day, which is interesting because I really don’t identify with that part of my personality anymore. I’m not a real barnyard babe, but I was really into sheep and wool.

LEE: It’s funny because you’re from upstate New York, but to me your image is so Californian.

BAZ: I think people have always associated me with L.A. even though I didn’t move there until I was 33. But I have also self-identified with L.A. from afar forever. I was born into the wrong state. I was supposed to be born in California. Everybody knows it. Everyone can see it. I see it myself. And it just took me 30-something years to finally get there.

LEE: Is it just the weather?

BAZ: I fucking love palm trees, I swear to god.

LEE: That’s what it is?

BAZ: It’s like, 90% palm trees and then 10% other stuff. But when I land in L.A. and I see those palm trees high in the sky, it just screams the good life to me.

LEE: And you got a convertible?

BAZ: I did, and then it burned in the fires.

LEE: Fuck that.

BAZ: It was gorgeous—vintage Mercedes, butter yellow with blue leather seats, 1986. And then it completely melted to the ground. But I’ll replace it someday. It’s just a silly expense right now.

LEE: I want to hear about Tuna, your weiner dog.

BAZ: She’s a doll.

LEE: How big is she?

MOLLY BAZ: Eight pounds.

LEE: My cat’s six pounds, and that’s a cat. So eight pounds is really small for a dog.

BAZ: Very small dog. She’s like, 24 inches long, I would say.

LEE: Do you ever feel bad eating hotdogs? Because you have a weiner dog.

BAZ: I feel worse eating tuna than hotdogs. I see tuna in her more, but here I am ordering a tuna melt. She’s the best. She was obviously my first child.

LEE: Guess what my favorite flavor of Ayoh is based on knowing me for five minutes?

BAZ: I’m gonna say your favorite is the Hot Giardinayo?

LEE: Because I’m from Chicago? Yes, that’s a good guess. I think that one is the most unique and the one that I like the best as its own thing. But the one that I use the most is the one with the pickles in it.

BAZ: Dill Pickle.

LEE: It’s basically tartar sauce, and I think we should be eating more tartar sauce.

BAZ: That makes total sense. I think most people like Dill Pickle above the rest. I’m actually a really big Dijonayo fan because I’ve just always loved dijonnaise.

LEE: Are you going to do more condiments outside of mayo?

BAZ: I think so, yeah. There’s a few more mayo’s that I want to work on, and then I think that it will grow into a larger condiment and/or sandwich brand.

LEE:  What’s a sandwich brand?

BAZ: A brand that is all about hero’ing and enhancing the sandwich.

LEE: Wow.

BAZ: And what are the other ways that I can help people make their sandwiches better at home? I have ideas, but I like that as the focal point of Ayoh. We’re not just a condiment brand. We’re a brand that supports the betterment of sandwiches. That’s what I’m hoping.

LEE: That’s cool.

BAZ: But you’ll have to stay tuned for that.

LEE: Do you read your comments?

BAZ: Yeah.

LEE: Do they hurt your feelings?

BAZ: In certain places. I won’t read comments on YouTube. I’ll never go on Reddit. That’s a dark, dark place.

LEE: Oh, yeah. I just learned about r/FoodieSnark.  It’s so lame.

BAZ: It’s so gnarly. It’s really mean. But yeah, I read the comments because I’m constantly tuning my craft, so the ones I’m looking for are not the ones that are like, “You dumb bitch.” Someone will be like, “I made this last night and it didn’t reduce nearly as much and it felt very watery,” or something like that. And I’m like, “Oh my god, let me take a new look at the recipe.” Comments can be really useful if they are useful comments, and comments can be really mean if they’re trying to take a bitch down, which they often are. But I’ve really developed a thick skin. I don’t think it’s impenetrable but it’s pretty fucking thick.

LEE: It would have to be. 

BAZ: Yeah, a thick skin is crucial. And  I’ve done enough therapy and coaching in my life to realize that most of what is happening in that scenario is an unhappy person projecting something about their own life onto someone they don’t know.

LEE: All these weird parasocial relationships.

BAZ: Totally.

LEE: You’re just trying to make the sandwich.

BAZ: I’m just trying to cook, y’all.

BAZ: It’s not that deep and it doesn’t need to be a popularity contest. You don’t need to point out my physical flaws. They’re doing it for a reason that is entirely their own and I feel for that, in a way. Also, I’m kind of getting full, but I’m having a hard time stopping.

LEE: I can’t figure out if I’m full. It’s that kind of food.

BAZ: Yes, totally.

LEE: You’re always walking on the edge.

BAZ: 100%. I’m going to waddle out of here.

LEE: So what are you working on?

BAZ: Well, right now I’m working on my third book.

LEE: Does it have a title?

BAZ: It does. And I don’t know if I’ve announced it, but fuck it, we can do it here.

LEE: Yeah, let’s do it.

BAZ: It’s called Less Is More.

LEE: Wow.

BAZ: Yeah. it’s a follow-up to the last one, More is More. It was initially a joke. But then, not to get super serious and deep, the title actually began to make more and more sense as I began to write.

LEE: You lost your whole pantry. You lost your entire house.

BAZ: Correct. My kitchen, my pantry, all my equipment, everything completely wiped out, zero, nothing. And I had to rebuild a whole kitchen and way of cooking. And the book is the reflection of that. What do you actually need in your pantry? What do you actually need in your kitchen to get a great meal on the table, especially when you’re going through one of life’s biggest disasters? How do you get a tasty meal on the table with all of those constraints? So it’s definitely the most personal of the books I’ve written because of what I just went through, and it’s been really amazing to be able to write and feel connected to it in a totally different way than the other ones. And it’s coming out in a year, maybe a little less.

LEE: When did More is More come out? 2023?

BAZ: Yeah, it’ll be three years.

LEE: Wow.

BAZ: That’s a long time right now. In this day and age, it feels pretty archaic that it takes three years, but in a way I really like that because it’s the only project that I linger on for that long.

LEE: If you’re just churning them out, it would be slop. Books should be special.

BAZ: Yeah. With my recipe club online, I’ll drop a recipe that’s feeling fun and hot to me right now and if I hate it in a year, bye. You can’t say bye to a recipe in a book. They’re heavier and more thoughtful. And I really appreciate that in the digital era.

LEE: If you were to die, what’s the recipe? That one recipe that people will remember you for?

BAZ: My Caesar salad recipe, the Cae Sal.

LEE: Of course, the Cae Sal. That’s a great recipe.

BAZ: So solid, so repeatable, so classic, but it’s a little fresher, I think, than most Caesar dressing recipes because it’s got lemon zest in it.  It’s the most “me” recipe of all time.

LEE: That’s a great answer.

BAZ: I think it still hits six years later.

LEE: They’ll put it on your tombstone.

BAZ: Here lies Molly Baz, creator of the Cae Sal.