Larry David Agreed to Interview His Daughter Cazzie. She Had Other Ideas.

There’s a particular kind of dread that sets in the year before you turn 30, the suspicion that you’ve been wrong about everything, and the grinding awareness that a new decade is approaching and the person you planned to be by now is nowhere in sight. Cazzie David wrote a whole book about it. Delusions is her reckoning with the bad relationships, the body dysmorphia, and the social media spiral that defined her twenties, narrated from the precipice of a new decade she isn’t sure she’s ready for. To mark its release, she asked her father Larry David to interview her, then turned the tables, putting the same themes to him instead.

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LARRY DAVID: My daughter recommended it to me. “Dad, you have to drink matcha.” She recommended it to me along with 10,000 other things that I should be doing with my life. But matcha is one of the things I’ve taken her up on. I have it every day after lunch with the two dates, per your recommendation.

CAZZIE DAVID: Do you like when I give you advice like that, or is it annoying to you?

LARRY: I don’t mind it unless it’s insane.

CAZZIE: Which happens often.

LARRY: Which happens often, yeah. You know, like the toilet paper.

CAZZIE: You mean when I replaced all the toilet paper in your house without telling you.

LARRY: I thought that bordered on insane.

CAZZIE: That was crossing a boundary.

LARRY: Yeah, because people get attached to that toilet paper.

CAZZIE: Even though I had good intentions.

LARRY: Oh, yeah. You had the best of intentions. You don’t want me to die. You think toilet paper is going to kill me, and that’s something I just can’t be down with.

CAZZIE: You don’t believe that toilet paper is toxic?

LARRY: I don’t believe that toilet paper’s going to kill me.

CAZZIE: Okay. First of all, I want to thank you for doing this. I didn’t want to ask someone else I knew because I would be scared they hated me for asking them a favor, and you aren’t allowed to hate me.

LARRY: I’m trying to think of five things I’ve said no to you in my life about, and I can’t come up with three.

CAZZIE: But I’m also very good at not asking you for things unless I really need them.

LARRY: But it’s not a good quality to never be able to say no to your daughter.

CAZZIE: No, it’s not.

LARRY: Where does that put me down to the category of fathers, bad or good?

CAZZIE: I’ve actually noticed that you spend a lot of time putting things into those categories. Are you a good person? Are you a bad person? You think about it a lot.

LARRY: I think we all struggle with it. In our hearts, we think we have terrible, terrible thoughts throughout the day. And we also have nice, wonderful thoughts about other people and how sympathetic you are to them.

CAZZIE: If only other people could hear those thoughts.

LARRY: They’re polite, if only other people could hear them.

CAZZIE: They’d know how good you are.

LARRY: I have tremendous thoughts, things I’d like to do, and I never do it. I just think it. “Oh, I should get that person something. I should write that person a note.”

CAZZIE: But it’s the thought that counts, some people say.

LARRY: Yeah, but it only counts if the person knows the thought. If it’s just you with the thought, it counts for nothing.

CAZZIE: True. Okay, let’s go back to the matcha you’re drinking.

LARRY: Sure.

CAZZIE: You have a pretty elaborate morning routine that’s developed over time. I was hoping maybe you could share it so people could visualize you doing it.

LARRY: The morning routine?

CAZZIE: Yeah. What’s your morning routine?

LARRY: Get up, it goes without saying. There’s this green powder that I have and then I have coffee. Then I read the paper, then I’ll go downstairs. I have a sauna in my house.

CAZZIE: You’re entitled to have a sauna at this point in your life. I don’t think anyone’s going to roll their eyes with that.

LARRY: I’ve heard that saunas are really good for you, so I have a sauna. Does that make me a bad person? People who are reading this are thinking, “Oh, he’s got a sauna. What an asshole.” And then I go into the jacuzzi. I have a jacuzzi too.

CAZZIE: Listen, you’re a successful guy.

LARRY: What am I supposed to do? Am I supposed to live like I lived in New York in the ’80s? Does that make me a jerk?

CAZZIE: I don’t think anyone’s going to be mad that you sometimes take a jacuzzi.

LARRY: Yeah, but I do it before I work out. Am I not allowed to work out too? So, okay. I take the jacuzzi and then I go in the cold water. A cold plunge, it’s called. And then I go over my body with a Theragun in preparation for my exercise.

CAZZIE: What time is it right now for you?

LARRY: I’m up usually around 5:30. I’m reading the paper for—and not only reading the paper, I’m playing the [New York] Times. I’m doing all the games.

CAZZIE: What’s the order of the games you do?

LARRY: Wordle’s always first. I’m in a Wordle competition with two friends. We play for money. At the end of the week, whoever had the lowest score from Sunday to Sunday wins $20 off the other two. 

CAZZIE: Sounds fun.

LARRY: And then I’m doing Spelling Bee.

CAZZIE: I’m wondering if the skincare routine is included in the morning routine.

LARRY: Zero.

CAZZIE: The top of your head, are you treating that like it’s face?

LARRY: I’m doing nothing to the top of the head. I’m treating it like it’s my arm.

CAZZIE: I’ve always been curious about that, so I just wanted to ask.

LARRY: Yeah, nothing ever. 

CAZZIE: So in the book, I write about people I’ve known or had experiences with. And I know that in Curb [Your Enthusiasm], the ideas you have are from people in real life. Someone has inspired something and you do it in the show.

LARRY: For sure.

CAZZIE: Does it bring you anxiety that they’ll find out or that they’ll know it’s them and be upset?

LARRY: No.

CAZZIE: Why?

LARRY: Because I’ve only really been confronted once for that.

CAZZIE: Most people just don’t notice?

LARRY: Yeah, because it’s usually not that overt.

CAZZIE: I guess I hope they just never read the book so they’ll never know that I wrote about them.

LARRY: Well, you’re a little more explicit than I am.

CAZZIE: There’s this Arthur Miller quote that basically says, “The best work that anybody ever writes is the work that is on the verge of embarrassing him, always.” Do you abide by that quote? I don’t think that’s what I did because I go so far past the verge.

LARRY: It’s a great quote. The more honest you are about who you are, the more you’re exposing yourself and opening yourself up to embarrassment, and you do that to great effect.

CAZZIE: Your reaction to the book was very different than my mother’s. And my mom, after she read the book, the only thing she said to me was that she was very concerned.

LARRY: [Laughs]

CAZZIE: Everything my mother was concerned by in the book, you were thrilled by. Like for you, there is no anxiety or neuroses that is too far. The most upset I think you’ve ever gotten at me was when I told you I was getting on antidepressants.

LARRY: Yes, that upset me.

CAZZIE: And I tried to promise you that I would still be very depressed. You’re in support of other people taking them, just not me.

LARRY: Yeah.

CAZZIE: You don’t want to be the only person suffering in the family.

LARRY: I think whatever those thoughts are, that will inform your writing in a good way.

CAZZIE: So better to be unhappy and have thoughts that can inform the writing.

LARRY: Yes.

CAZZIE: That’s really good parenting advice. Most of the book is about age 29 to 30, and I was wondering if you remember where you were at that age and what you were doing.

LARRY: I know exactly where I was. That would be 1976 to 1977. I was in New York, living on 43rd Street in that roach-infested apartment, and I was doing standup, improv, at Catch A Rising Star.

CAZZIE: Did you have any thoughts about turning 30 and where you were at that age?

LARRY: Every thought I had at that age, there was nothing positive. Occasionally I would have a good set and be encouraged that maybe something good could happen, but generally my glass was very empty.

CAZZIE: Almost to the point where turning 30 didn’t even matter.

LARRY: It didn’t matter.

CAZZIE: When did you feel like an adult for the first time?

LARRY: It’s a funny thing that my mentality has really never changed. I’ve never really felt different than when I was a kid. I think it has something to do with being funny that I’m not a mature person. I have childlike thoughts and stupid comedic thoughts, so I’ve never really considered myself a man in that sense.

CAZZIE: Yeah.

LARRY: I’ve never felt like one, I’ve never dressed like one, I’ve never acted like one.

CAZZIE: Do you have a philosophy on aging, or you’re just powering through?

LARRY: Essentially, yeah. Clint Eastwood, somebody told me, had this great line he said about aging. He said, “Don’t let the old man in.”

CAZZIE: Yeah.

LARRY: I just try and take care of myself physically. Mentally, I do nothing.

CAZZIE: If anything, you’re doing bad things for yourself mentally. And negativity, which is your entire being, and now unfortunately mine, is just as bad for you.

LARRY: I hear that.

CAZZIE: But whatever. Fuck it.

LARRY: I don’t buy it.

CAZZIE: You can’t change that even if you wanted to?

LARRY: You’d have to open my head up and give me a lobotomy. 

CAZZIE: I write a little bit about making big decisions in your late 20s, and some of those decisions are breaking up with someone, because you kind of have to start taking your life seriously. You have to choose the right partner. We’ve talked about navigating these breakups.

LARRY: Nothing worse.

CAZZIE: You once said to me something about how at the start of a relationship, you should decide on a code word.

LARRY: I don’t know why this isn’t a law. Everybody’s lives would be immeasurably improved if people could have a code word. You say the word “cup” and it’s over.

CAZZIE: So you and your partner, before you get into the relationship, decide, “This is the code word. If we ever want to break up, one of us just says this word, no questions asked.”

LARRY: No questions asked.

CAZZIE: And you wouldn’t be curious what went wrong?

LARRY: What are they going to say? “You smell. You don’t satisfy me sexually. I hate your act.” Anything they say is not going to be good, right?

CAZZIE: I agree.

LARRY: What’s the point? Everybody says, “I want to know why.” Really? You’re going to put me in that position? It was hard enough to do this in the first place. Now I have to tell you why?

CAZZIE: Some people might want to learn, maybe if there was something they did that was wrong so they can then do better in the next relationship. A lot of people do care about evolving as a person.

LARRY:  [Laughs]

CAZZIE: I know you don’t, but some people do. I’ve been told a lot over the course of the last few years by pretty much everyone over 30 that your 30s are way better than your 20s. Were your 30s better than your 20s?

LARRY: Way, way better.

CAZZIE: Why?

LARRY: I was lost in my 20s. First of all, half my 20s were spent without having the slightest idea of what I was going to do with my life. I was collecting unemployment, I was driving a cab, I was a private chauffeur. And then I got into standup. So the second part, at least I had a goal.

CAZZIE: Right.

LARRY: I had a reason to get up in the morning, so that made a huge difference.

CAZZIE: Did you feel any pressure to settle down? Any interest in having a family?

LARRY: No.

CAZZIE: Definitely different for men and for women at that age. There’s not this panic as there is for women. “I have to find someone right now, otherwise I could miss my chance to have children. I could end up alone.”

DAVID: No, no, no. There was no panic like that.

CAZZIE: Male privilege.

LARRY: Yeah.

CAZZIE: There’s this point in your early 30s where all your friends seem to be in a different stage of life. Some are getting married, some are pregnant, some are getting divorced, some are still doing cocaine and have never been in a relationship. It’s hard to maintain friendships when you’re all in a different stage. I’ve found that making friends as an adult is really hard. If there was someone you really got along with at this point in your life, would you try to pursue a friendship with them?

LARRY: If I did, they wouldn’t know it. It would be so subtle. I could never, ever put myself out there.

CAZZIE: No.

LARRY: You think that you have enough friends, but I suppose if you really get along with somebody, you might want to pursue a friendship. But it would be difficult. Yeah.

CAZZIE: If a man was making overtures towards a friendship with you, would you reciprocate? Would you think it’s weird if he was trying to be your friend?

LARRY: I’ve noticed since I’ve been on television that—

CAZZIE: More people try to be your friend.

LARRY: More people try to be my friend.

CAZZIE: Must be nice.

LARRY: I’ll just say this, it’s very hard to become my friend. It’s not worthwhile to try. Now there are couple friends. It’s hard to have a non-coupled friend at this stage. If I’m not golfing with you, to be a non-coupled friend is difficult because it’s a coupled life when you’re married, right? And so you need coupled friends.

CAZZIE: And the odds of finding not just one person you like, but two—

LARRY:  Yes, difficult. But for a non-coupled friend, for just a guy now, what are you supposed to do? Have lunch? I’m not a lunch guy.

CAZZIE: Lunch is a huge waste of time.

LARRY: It’s a terrible waste of time.

CAZZIE: Ruins the whole day.

LARRY: It’s ridiculous.

CAZZIE: That’s your whole day, lunch.

LARRY: That’s so stupid.

CAZZIE: I wrote a little bit about body dysmorphia in the book. Do you think about your looks at all?

LARRY: Once you’re married, you don’t care anymore. You’re not thinking about your face.

CAZZIE: Totally.

LARRY: I’m not walking around thinking about my face.

CAZZIE: I think about my face probably 65 percent of the time.

LARRY: Wow. That’s a lot of face time.

CAZZIE: Yeah. It’s spawned from the internet for sure.

LARRY: Oh, that internet.

CAZZIE: And then the combination of being a girl. Do you think there’s anything acceptable to post of yourself online?

LARRY: No. Never. 

CAZZIE: It’s not okay?

LARRY: I would never consider putting anything up there.

CAZZIE: I actually keep my Instagram like a deep secret from you because I know you would be so disappointed to know that I could even just post something that has anything to do with myself.

LARRY: It mystifies me how people do it. I don’t know what they’re doing. I don’t understand how people can do that. Why did they think that anybody gives a fuck about them?

CAZZIE: Well, nobody does.

LARRY: So why do they do it? Why are you doing it? Nobody cares what you’re putting up there, so why are you doing it? You’re just giving people the opportunity to make fun of you. That’s all.

CAZZIE: I’m pretty sure I’m the only person who hates on things on the internet. So really they’re just opening themselves up for me to make fun of them, which is just one person and someone they surely don’t care about. If you were on the internet and they knew that you were seeing it and making fun of them, maybe everyone would reign it in a little more, which is maybe a good reason for you to get on it.

LARRY: People send me Christmas cards with pictures of their families. I’m wondering, “Why are you doing this?”

CAZZIE: I think the Christmas card’s actually as close as you get to scrolling on Instagram.

LARRY: That’s as close as I get, Christmas cards.

CAZZIE: Well, thank you for doing this, dad. I really appreciate it.

 

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Hair: Kiley Fitzgerald at A-Frame Agency

Makeup: Loren Canby at A-Frame Agency

Fashion Assistant: Esteban Arias

Production Direction: Alexandra Weiss

Photography Producer: Georgia Ford

On-set Production: Brooke Ramirez at Radish Films

Shot on location at Maison Citrus