Interview

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In late 2007, Swiss-born artist Urs Fischer took a jackhammer to Gavin Brown's pristine white West Village floors. A gallerist has got to have a lot of faith in an artist to let him rip through the concrete, upend pipes, and fill the space with a huge open trench of dirt and debris. Faith is precisely what Gavin Brown has in the 35-year-old Fischer, who lives and works in New York and Zurich. On the heels of Fischer's extraordinary hole-in-the-floor show, gallerist and artist teamed up again to co-curate "Who's Afraid of Jasper Johns?" at Tony Shafrazi's gallery last May. The event was basically an experiment in outrage and orchestration, where the previous exhibition was minutely photographed and then turned into wallpaper to compete with a new set of paintings and sculptures. The project might sound convoluted, but Fischer's work is overwhelmingly straightforward. He uses everyday materials like wax, fruit, dust, and chairs, and there is always a lingering feeling of loss and decay. Brown caught up with the artist just as he was preparing to build a new kitchen in his studio. Fischer clearly can't stop tearing things up.

GAVIN BROWN: In our day-to-day activities there are a lot of things I don't ask you.

URS FISCHER: Likewise.

GB: Like, I didn't know until recently that you hadn't gone to art school. That's getting rarer these days. It actually makes me think that to be an artist, maybe you shouldn't go to art school anymore.

UF: I think it's about different generations. Many artists who don't go off to art school come to New York. It's about what you learn when you're here.

GB: So where did you learn about art?

UF: I don't know. Everywhere.

GB: Did you learn more, say, when you were 16 than you did when you were 26? Does what you learned apply better now?

UF: You basically only discover a new thing once. Actually, I'm only starting to learn about art art now.

GB: What's art art?

UF: Art, like in the historical sense.

GB: Are you learning about that from books?

UF: Yeah. Sculpture from 2,000 or 3,000 years ago or more has similar concerns as it does now.

GB: Like what?

UF: Maybe an artist's position in society is different today because it's more individualistic. Maybe you're not a direct servant anymore to the patron-you're an indirect servant, or a servant with a choice, or maybe you could not even serve. That doesn't matter. What I mean is, it's the same. It's the way you make something. Take a relief. You draw it, you carve it out. Later you build it up from a flat surface. There is no other way to do a sculpture-you either add or you subtract. There are only two choices, and it's the same today.