Ms. Boogie Tells Honey Balenciaga Why She’s Naming Names on The Breakdown

As the artist Ms. Boogie prepared for the most crucial performance of her life, she knew exactly what she wanted to give in the spotlight: “I need you to hear every word,” she declared. But Rose Isabel Rayos is no stranger to being the main character. Born in Brooklyn and raised in the ballroom scene, Boogie, an Afro-Latina trans woman, dropped her first rap project ten years ago. Since then, she’s given us everything from wild, quotable bars on the viral doll anthem “Fem Queen” to a cutesy yet cocky verse on Kelela’s “LMK.” Now, she’s ready for something realer. On her latest album, The Breakdown, she peels it back over drill beats to reveal raw storytelling on sex work, resilience, and finding her place in hip hop and the world. One person who knows something about authenticity is ballroom princess Honey Balenciaga, who was raised in Boogie’s native East New York (the two even went to the same middle school). Last Friday at The Shed, Ms. Boogie presented an immersive, dramatic rendition of The Breakdown alongside a sonic sequence by producer M. Jamison and a full cast and crew of fellow fem queens. The night before the performance, she called her friend Honey from the green room to catch up about getting in her theater bag, finding healing through rap, and embarking on her new journey of motherhood.—MEKALA RAJAGOPAL

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HONEY BALENCIAGA: Hi, mami. I’m just doing audio by the way. I’m trying to be DL.

MS. BOOGIE: I don’t mind.

BALENCIAGA: I just finished Fashion Week. I’m tired.

MS. BOOGIE: How was it?

BALENCIAGA: It was insane. This is the busiest I have ever been and I’m really, really grateful, honestly.

MS. BOOGIE: You were everywhere. Even when I wasn’t on your page, you were everywhere.

BALENCIAGA: Thank you. But I’m really excited for you. This is about you, sister, fuck me. 

MS. BOOGIE: I know, but it’s like we’re almost the same girl. We’re both from the same neighborhood, and that means so much to me. Like yeah, we’re outside. If she’s outside, I’m outside.

BALENCIAGA: Yeah, I was really happy when you asked me to interview you because we’re from the same neighborhood and we’re really trying to make shit pop.

MS. BOOGIE: We went to the same middle school—

BALENCIAGA: Now we get to experience our dreams and share it with each other. It’s special.

MS. BOOGIE: It really is.

BALENCIAGA: How are you feeling, sister? I see you’re in a green room.

MS. BOOGIE: Yes, I’m in my dressing room. I’m feeling good. I’m kind of gagging, and showtime is tomorrow, so yikes.

BALENCIAGA: How long have you been in rehearsals?

MS. BOOGIE: A month-and-a-half, maybe. I’ve been giving myself a lot of time, but it still feels like it’s happening so soon.

BALENCIAGA: What’s the name of the album?

MS. BOOGIE: The Breakdown, it’s the one that’s already out. I’m re-imagining that whole album to fit this show. It’s giving Carmen: A Hip Hopera. Have we seen that?

BALENCIAGA: Okay, ’cause I actually have. Walk me through the songwriting process of this album. Are there any particular songs that were challenging or rewarding to write? 

MS. BOOGIE: The most challenging song is called “Hustler,” because I’m speaking from so many different points of view. There’s four different points of view in the song. One of them is my former self, back in the days when they used to call me “Barbie.” You wasn’t around for that.

BALENCIAGA: No, but you told me about that at dinner.

MS. BOOGIE: Yeah. So it’s Barbie, my current self, a family member, and then there’s a third person in the story that overlooks everything. I had to step into a lot of different shoes. And the most challenging part about that was being transparent. People’s names are in there, people who have made me feel certain things. I drop their names in the song, so I had to really let go of that control and not be worried about what they would think if I said their name. It’s very autobiographical. But the most rewarding song was probably the title single, because I got to make a video to it and work with people that mean a lot to me. You know Alex Mugler choreographed the video?

BALENCIAGA: Oh, I did not know that. I do know that “Breakdown” was one of the songs that got all the girls hyped.

MS. BOOGIE: That went number one on the block. [Laughs] Dance is not my first language, but that was such a beautiful challenge and Alex trusted me to put my own twist on it and reinterpret the movement that he gave me. 

BALENCIAGA: Speaking of “Hustler,” I think it’s really interesting to see you dive into the different eras of your life as you were progressing into the artist that you are now, from Barbie to Boogie. And for you to drop names on the album, you’re not being pussy about this. It’s going to be spooky for a lot of people. Are you ready for that attention?

MS. BOOGIE: Absolutely. That’s the era we’re living in. The end of the world is coming and you need to know before the world ends that I’m hurt.

BALENCIAGA: Would you say it’s a healing thing for you?

MS. BOOGIE: Definitely. I think the hardest part about the album was letting go of it. For so long, it was the only thing that kept me busy, kept me focused, kept me driven to make money to fund my own craft, to use my brain in an artistic way. And when I let go of it, I definitely had a “what’s next” moment. So after I put the album out, I did a European tour. I was outside, but I wasn’t ready to be outside yet, because the stories were still so fresh. To answer your question, I think that letting go of that personal time that I had with the album was the healing part. I put it out for people to listen to, so I kind of feel like it doesn’t belong to me anymore. Some people get it, some people don’t. But shows like this help me regain that control of my story. This is recovery for me.

BALENCIAGA: That’s beautiful. What are your goals for this album and your music career in general? Do you want to perform more? Create more albums? What’s tea?

MS. BOOGIE: That’s such a beautiful question because I feel like you’re asking it because you think about those things, too. A lot of artists think about, “Do I want to do what people would expect me to do, which is to be outside and do all of the things involved with putting out art, or do I want to just be to myself?” And I definitely want a me moment. I want to be a mom really, really soon, and I’m going to be.

BALENCIAGA: Oh my god. Really?

MS. BOOGIE: Yes, y’all heard it first. I’m looking forward to motherhood and I want that to be a very private time for me where I get to create new memories that aren’t about the things that are on this album. Because this album was really like a strip down. It was dirty laundry. So after this, I know I don’t want to do traditional performances, but if I get an opportunity to curate something and add different mediums to it, then I will perform. But as far as getting out there and one-two, one-two on the stage at the club, I don’t know if that’s what my heart and body wants right now.

BALENCIAGA: I feel that.

MS. BOOGIE: I’m in my theater bag.

BALENCIAGA: I feel like people are always planning way too ahead in the future and not accepting what is. So it’s nice to hear that you’re just thinking about something that will complete you wholly, and that’s having a family instead of just music, because at the end of the day there’s more to that.

MS. BOOGIE: There’s more to that.

BALENCIAGA: You’re going to have so much new inspiration because you’re going to have a baby and you’re letting all of that go.

MS. BOOGIE: It’s very important because there aren’t a lot of women like me that rap and make music that I can look up to, or that I’ve ever had as a reference. I’ve had to create my own path.

BALENCIAGA: Absolutely.

MS. BOOGIE: Nobody really wants to talk about the naked truth of the experience. I took a risk with that. I knew that I didn’t necessarily make music that the girls was going to bop to, but I hope the girls will listen to it and look in the mirror for two minutes and then go back to whatever they’re doing.

BALENCIAGA: Speaking of inspirations, what advice would you give to a trans girl or a fem queen who wants to pursue their passions, whether it’s music or anything else?

MS. BOOGIE: Go with what you think people don’t want to see or don’t want to hear about you.

BALENCIAGA: Amen to that.

MS. BOOGIE: That’s usually what’s going to free you. That’s what’s going to make you proud about what you did. It sounds tricky if you’re trying to pop off and make it, but baby, that’s what’s going to set you free.

BALENCIAGA: It’s such a good feeling when you do shit that people said you can’t do.

MS. BOOGIE: Or that you shouldn’t. There’s a lot of things that, according to the books, we both should not be doing. And there’s also a list of what people think we should do. It’s really important to break that mold, because we’re not mascots.

BALENCIAGA: Did you collaborate with any other fem queens on the album?

MS. BOOGIE: Wow, I love this question. So the deluxe version of this album is still being built because even this performance is being recorded in audio so that it can be on the deluxe album.

BALENCIAGA: Oh, fire.

MS. BOOGIE: But I do look forward to some fem queens on the album. Trap Cinderella, she’s from the Bronx, she’s a great rapper. Rahrah Gabor, she’s also a great rapper from Jersey.

BALENCIAGA: Oh my god, yes.

MS. BOOGIE: And then, in this show we have this other queen called Demi V and she’s a great fucking singer. She takes you to church and it’s not often that we feel church, you know what I mean? I would say this show is creatively led by fem queens. The musical director is a fem queen and all the girls performing in the show are fem queens. One of them is called Ky Ani, she’s on “Aight Boom.” We’re trying to show that we belong here and we don’t only have to perform in the ways that y’all know us to perform in. We can exist in different spaces. What are the chances of you going into a studio and bumping into somebody that really speaks your language, right? If I go to the studio and I don’t have women like me in that room… if I say “douche down,” are they going to know what I’m talking about? [Laughs] You know what I mean? And that went platinum in the streets.

BALENCIAGA: [Laughs] That song went platinum in the streets, bitch.

MS. BOOGIE: No shade.

BALENCIAGA: When you’re not making music, how do you unwind? What helps you recharge? Besides smoking a blunt with your girlfriends. 

MS. BOOGIE: [Laughs] I just appreciate the fact that I have a roof over my head, because we’re in a crisis. A health crisis, a housing crisis, there is a big crisis going on in the world. So just really appreciating those four walls and meditating at home. I do hot yoga a lot. You’ve got to come with me one day.

BALENCIAGA: I love hot yoga.

MS. BOOGIE: It’s in Queens so we’ll go for a little joyride and there’s a fab park across the street so we’ll go for a hop and a skip. That’s the bag I’m in. I haven’t always had a routine in my life, so this era is like unlocking routine for myself. 

BALENCIAGA: Absolutely. I just started creating my own routines to keep myself sane. I just moved to Jersey, I didn’t tell you that.

MS. BOOGIE: You did it! I knew you were moving but I didn’t know you did it. Jersey fits you because you enjoy your privacy, as much of an outside girl as you are.

BALENCIAGA: Yes, I love my bubble. How do you feel when you’re on stage? When I’m on stage, I completely black out.

MS. BOOGIE: You do. I can see it in your eyes and your dips. I’m like, “Is this real?”

BALENCIAGA: I have no idea what’s going on. What about you, does your persona take over or are you in control?

MS. BOOGIE: I do engage because my medium of art is so about the lyric. I need you to hear every word. I love to make eye contact. But what you do is so inspiring to me because I can see when you depart from earth, literally. I can see when you take off, and it’s so beautiful. This work that I’m doing now requires a little blacking out though. Like I told you, dance is not my first language, so in order for me to step outside of my body and let go, it has to give, “I don’t want to see a face.” So I’ve organized the lighting so that when I have a sequence coming up I’m like, “Black out everybody and just let the light lead me.”

BALENCIAGA: Did you use a spotlight? A spotlight is fab.

MS. BOOGIE: There’s a few spotlights in there. I’ve been playing a lot with the spotlight shrinking, blacking out, then opening up again. I directed this whole show so I basically had to create a guide for everybody to follow. Even if it didn’t make sense to them in a technical way, I was like, “This is what’s supposed to be.”

BALENCIAGA: “It makes sense ’cause I want it.”

MS. BOOGIE: Honey, that’s it. 

BALENCIAGA: If you could send a message back to your younger self growing up in Brooklyn, what would you tell them? I’ve been asked this question before.

MS. BOOGIE: Tell me your answer.

BALENCIAGA: I would tell them absolutely nothing ’cause we’re on this journey destined for us for a reason, and whatever happens, happens. So why would I change a course that’s meant for me?

MS. BOOGIE: I love that point of view. But for me, I would’ve said, “Embrace your surroundings, but don’t become them.” I went through a phase in my youth, especially when I came into the scene, where I was taking in everything that everybody was throwing at me and thinking that I had to become that in order to be that girl. And it caused me to really delay my evolution. As much as your parents might tell you that you are who you hang around with—and I was hanging around some fab girls, no shade. But you never know what somebody has to give up to get what they have. I went through things, some of which I’m talking about on this album, that happened over a decade ago. Some girls will do whatever it takes, but I don’t feel that way, because I created a system that allows me to reward myself.

BALENCIAGA: Absolutely. Who’s been your biggest cheerleader on this journey?

MS. BOOGIE: Aside from myself, honestly, my mama. Shout out.

BALENCIAGA: That’s amazing. I hope you guys have an amazing rehearsal. I see that sex jacket in the back with the brown black fur, you need to wear that.

MS. BOOGIE: Yes.

BALENCIAGA: I need to come to a show. I love you, sister. 

MS. BOOGIE: Thank you, sissy.