“For a Moment, You Become the Art”: Yung Lean, by Vincent Cassell

From his early days as a SoundCloud curiosity to his evolution into a genre-blurring artist, Yung Lean has spent the last decade transforming himself from an internet-era outsider into a cult icon with a global following. Now, with his eighth album on the horizon, the Stockholm native is branching out into film, making his acting debut in Romain Gavras’s Sacrifice, a visceral story about radicals crashing a charity event. Alongside him on set was Vincent Cassel, the veteran French actor who, based on the conversation below, knows a kindred spirit when he meets one.

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WEDNESDAY 10 AM JAN. 15, 2025 NYC

YUNG LEAN: Hey. 

VINCENT CASSEL: What the fuck is going on? 

LEAN: Do you see me, Vincent?

CASSEL: Yeah, I see you. Do you see me?

LEAN: Yes, I see you.

CASSEL: You look younger!

LEAN: You look older.

CASSEL: Yung Lean!

LEAN: Young and fresh. [Laughs] Good to see you, man.

CASSEL: Yeah. And the difference with your hair, because you were blonde.

LEAN: Yeah, exactly. This is what I really look like. Are you in an office?

CASSEL: I’m in the middle of I don’t know what. The baby just arrived. 

LEAN: Where are you?

CASSEL: I’m in Paris.

LEAN: Is the baby sleeping? 

CASSEL: I don’t know, but there’s a bunch of fairies taking care of him. 

LEAN: That’s good.

CASSEL: So what is this for?

LEAN: Interview mag.

CASSEL: The famous one?

LEAN: Yeah, this is the magazine that Andy Warhol created. 

CASSEL: Yes, of course, I know. Why are you doing this interview? Is something coming out?

LEAN: My new album. I’m doing a press tour in New York. 

CASSEL: New York—it’s been a while. I love it.

LEAN: I thought about you when you were young coming here, running around the streets, acting a fool. It’s good this time of year. I like New York when it’s a bit colder.

CASSEL: It depends what kind of work you do. I remember being a bike messenger in New York in the winter. It didn’t last long.

LEAN: Oh, really? You had real jobs? 

CASSEL: I did.

LEAN: How old were you when you were in La Haine? Like my age? 

CASSEL: I was 28. How old are you? 

LEAN: I’m 28.

CASSEL: Exactly. That’s what it is, man. It’s crazy.

LEAN: That is crazy. I only had short jobs. I sold beer at concerts, then I worked for a couple months at McDonald’s, and at a beach facility.

CASSEL: Are you going to do the release from New York? Meaning how does this work? You’re going to meet a lot of people from different music media and stuff like that?

LEAN: Yeah. I guess for a movie, you’re there when it actually drops. For music, it drops in a couple of months and it drops online. So now we’re just here to meet Interview. You do everything for a week here and then go back home.

CASSEL: So the album exists already?

LEAN: Yes. [Laughs]

CASSEL: But I mean, it’s mixed, it’s done?

LEAN: What if I said no? I’m just faking it. There’s no album, Vincent.

CASSEL: What’s the name?

LEAN: The name is just my name, Jonatan. I’m trying to break the fourth wall of Yung Lean and Jonatan, and just come together.

CASSEL: That’s interesting. How do you position it? Is it hip-hop? Is it pop?

LEAN: I would say it’s like an uncle album. It’s guitar, straight-from-the-heart songs.

CASSEL: No beats?

LEAN: I come from hip-hop, so it’s always going to be hip-hop melodies, but more me trying to do, like, Bruce Springsteen.

CASSEL: Because the truth is that more than a rapper, you’re a poet. 

LEAN: Exactly. I’m a poet who does different genres. If I do pop, then it’s a poet doing pop, and if I do rock, it’s a poet doing rock. You’re right.

CASSEL: On the movie we just finished together, sometimes I was making fun of you, calling you a rapper, because to me, you’re obviously not just a rapper.

LEAN: I’m far from the American rapper-core. I can’t fake that. I grew up listening to—we talked about this—Wu-Tang, and everything that you grew up listening to as well. But then when you get a bit older, you realize what you are.

CASSEL: Yes, of course.

LEAN: But being a French actor is hard for you too, right?

CASSEL: I don’t know, because it’s not really an identity. It’s like you being a Swedish rapper. It’s a very grotesque way to define it. I think you just find yourself. At a certain point, you realize what you really like, and how you get to the point where you can deliver something that you think is interesting enough to show.

LEAN: Yeah. It’s nice when you get out of that shell in any art form and can be anything. Like you in Eastern Promises are not a French actor, but a gay Russian gangster. If I had never seen anything about you, I would think it’s just that. For a moment, you become the art.

CASSEL: And never forget, it’s a game.

LEAN: Exactly. You said that during the film shoot, and that is very true. And if you believe the game, then you go insane. We see that all the time.

CASSEL: So we really enjoyed making this movie together, right?

LEAN: Yeah, we did.

CASSEL: The surroundings, and the way it went, and Romain [Gavras, the director] and Kim [Chapiron] and—

LEAN: Salma [Hayek].

CASSEL: Salma, of course.

LEAN: Salma was fucking great. 

CASSEL: A lot of really cool energies. And you know what? For something that I think is going to be super cool. It wasn’t just fun to do, I think we did something that I really want to watch.

LEAN: Me too. I think about it all the time. I’m waiting to see a trailer or some clips. And you really get stuck in that world as well. On the last day, when I took off all the clothes and changed into my own, you were like, “You walk differently now. I see it. You’re getting rid of the character.” I was really sad when I went home. I was like, “Fuck, this was my life. We were in that cave. We were taking them hostage. This was it.”

CASSEL: How many movies did you do?

LEAN: I did one short film last summer, but I only filmed it for four days. All my music videos have kind of been short films, but this is the first long one.

CASSEL: You meet a lot of people, it’s very intense, and then it’s over. 

LEAN: Yeah. I went in there and started talking with everyone, and then every day goes by and you’re like, “Fuck this is exhausting.” I’m talking to everyone, but there’s so many people. Then I could see you, a veteran, and you do your thing and walk away. I didn’t realize how long it was going to be, so sometimes the socialpart of it fucks you up.

CASSEL: Honestly, people know what you have to do, so it’s not about socializing, really. I don’t force anything. Just be polite with everybody, which is normal.

LEAN: Yeah, exactly.

CASSEL: But it was interesting to watch you because I knew that you hadn’t done much as an actor in a literal sense. Like literally, sometimes you didn’t know where the camera was, and that’s a technical thing. And by the way, through the movie, you got it. But it was interesting to see you adapt on set. I said that to Romain at some point. I said, “It’s crazy, because the first day he was literally turning his back to the camera, and then three weeks later, I was like, maybe this guy should make movies.”

LEAN: It was so funny. Not the DOP, but the guy actually holding the camera—

CASSEL: The camera operator. 

LEAN: When we were on the boat and I was sitting with the gun and we did our stunt scene, he was saying to Romain, “That Swedish actor, he’s not blocking, he’s changing the marks. What the fuck is he doing?”

CASSEL: In French?

LEAN: Yeah, in French. “He’s really good when he’s onscreen. His face is really good. But what kind of acting is this?” And then Romain was like, “He hasn’t done this before.” “Oh, thank god.” He thought it was some new technique where you go against everything. The new cinema. But I learned a lot from watching you and Anya [Taylor-Joy].

CASSEL: Anya is a machine.

LEAN: Anya is a fucking machine. And she’s very, very professional. 

CASSEL: Everybody was, when you think about it.

LEAN: Yeah. I thought acting was going to be one thing, but it was another thing.

CASSEL: You thought it would be what, and what was it?

LEAN: I love films, and I thought I was going to be like Jack Nicholson. More expressive, like theater. Not that I ever did theater, but I thought it would be more expressive with the face. And then when I got there, it’s none of it. It’s so toned-down. And the best takes, the face is already doing a lot, so you’ve got to do just a little bit.

CASSEL: The shot is doing a lot. 

LEAN: The shot is doing a lot. The DOP, the light, everything. So I had to tone it down.

CASSEL: And maybe just the character requires that, and then on some other things, you’re going to have to be more like Jack Nicholson.

LEAN: I liked your quote. “Acting is easy. It’s hard to admit it.”

CASSEL: Yeah. Acting is easy. What’s hard is to accept it. But it should be; otherwise there’s a problem.

LEAN: The best parts were when it was just playful, and it felt supernatural.

CASSEL: It’s true that you learn a lot watching people on sets. When the camera’s on you, you’ve got to make it work. And the more you know how a set works, the easier it is to surf it.

LEAN: Yeah.

CASSEL: You know where to put the energy, to be by yourself or to enjoy company.

LEAN: That was one of the big things. When you’re a musician, you’re backstage and you’re completely quiet, and you have to contain the energy. And then you let it all out.

CASSEL: At the right moment. 

LEAN: But acting is like, you let it all out, but then in two minutes, you have to let it all out again, but you have to fake it. And then you have to sit around for five hours, so you have to contain the energy. In surfing terms, I didn’t understand the waves, and that took energy.

CASSEL: And experience.

LEAN: Yeah. But it was good. And I really believe in Romain, and I believe in the script.

CASSEL: And plus, Romain’s been talking about you for a while. “My Swedish rapper friend.” But I didn’t know who you were. I didn’t know what you looked like. So when I first met you, it was kind of, “Ah, that’s the guy!” [Laughs]

LEAN: I’ve heard a lot about you from Romain, too. It was good to connect and be a part of the whole Romain universe. It all came to light when we were in the cave, with the blonde, the kids, the guns—it was Romain’s vision.

CASSEL: Do you still have a band with you?

LEAN: Yeah. We’re going to have a band for the live shows.

CASSEL: How many people?

LEAN: Five, maybe? We’re going to have guitar, bass, drums, synthesizer, and then one kind of DJ guy. In March, if you and Narah [Baptista, Cassel’s girlfriend] want to come, there’s a big show in Stockholm.

CASSEL: I think I will be in Brazil at this point.

LEAN: Yeah, but Brazil and Stockholm are almost the same. 

CASSEL: [Laughs] It’s just a flight away. And all the songs are in English, or you got some in Swedish too?

LEAN: I have an extra side project called Död Mark, which means dead soil in Swedish; it’s like a rock band. So, we play one of those songs too, which is where I sing and write in Swedish, and it’s with my brother Micke, who I’ve done all the music with for 12 years. He’s like the Swedish DJ Mehdi, a genius.

CASSEL: I think you mentioned it before.

LEAN: But most of it is in English. What about you? Did you ever sing?

CASSEL: Everything I do is as an actor, so I did for a movie, but I love music. I have a lot of musician friends.

LEAN: Yeah, you put me onto good Brazilian shit. There’s one song that I listen to all the time. “Como te vejo,” the woman singing.

CASSEL: Ah, like an old woman? 

LEAN: Yeah! Fucking beautiful. It’s like a hymn.

CASSEL: It’s kind of religious. 

LEAN: It is religious. You have good music taste.

CASSEL: Music is very important. I think if it’s something you’re going to spend your life doing— whether it’s singing, directing, being a journalist—if you have the opportunity to find something that you do because you have to do it, that’s the way you express yourself the best.

LEAN: Yeah. You have no choice. It has to come out.

CASSEL: If you feel like singing, sing. But I do believe that when you stay focused on one craft, you get something that is more and more personal.

LEAN: For me, it was always writing lyrics and poetry and rapping, and then singing. Then everything came through that. “Oh, I want to try acting, I will do that with a music video. Oh, I like clothing, then it comes out in a show.” It becomes little branches on a tree that just grows and grows into this big tree. It pays off to learn one craft. [Yung Lean takes snus]

CASSEL: [Laughs] You know, at one point I was in Texas on a ranch, and I had to work on how to be a cowboy. And the guys were chewing tobacco, so I started to chew tobacco.

LEAN: Chewing tobacco is hardcore man, with the spitting. This is the version that is made in Sweden. Right now it seems like a very manly thing to do, but it was made for women. Back in the 1700s when Sweden was very poor, men were allowed to take cigarette breaks from working, but women were not allowed to take cigarette breaks because they had to do the ironing and the folding and the housework. So they took the tobacco from the cigarettes and started putting it in the oven and then in their mouths.

CASSEL: Interesting. In the oven first.

LEAN: So I’m a true feminist doing this.

CASSEL: But still, it’s bad for you. 

LEAN: Yeah, but it’s a double-edged sword. If I stop this, I start smoking in an hour.

CASSEL: By the way, I did what I said I would do. On the first, I took all the vapes and just threw it all away.

LEAN: Oh, congrats. Do you get more anxious or have problems sleeping?

CASSEL: Not really. I’ve noticed that when you do things, you’re the audience of your own body. And it’s very much the gesture.

LEAN: The act of the hand. 

CASSEL: It’s really ridiculous, in a way.

LEAN: It’s the same for me with the snus, and I guess coffee—the ritual. I have this moment where I’ve done my take, I’ve recorded my thing, I put it in.

CASSEL: Poor things we are. 

LEAN: Yeah. But it’s really good to quit things and to be the watcher of your body, to be aware of, “Okay, now the body is craving something. What do I do?”

CASSEL: Yeah. The body is almost like our own persona. It’s almost like something about the soul. The soul is not well enough, so it’s seeking something to be reassured. So what can I do? What can I do to make it feel better with my conscience? It’s never-ending, man. We die much too early. We should live around 200 years.

LEAN: One-hundred percent. I think in the Bible, god makes us live 400 years. And then he’s like, “No, no, no. It’s too long.” But I am with you. I feel like whenever people start getting wise, that’s when they—

CASSEL: Die.

LEAN: Yeah. It’s a fucking joke. I stopped drinking alcohol, and I stopped drinking this thing that I was addicted to for four or five years. That was really my issue. It was like an opiate drink, this stupid thing called kratom. When I stopped it, it was horrible at first. But then when I got a little further, I started feeling like, “I’m in a social setting, the soul just wants to feel a little more comfortable or a little more dull.” But then you replace that with, let me—

CASSEL: Talk to people. Or just don’t go there.

LEAN: Yeah. Or don’t go to that place because you’ll be uncomfortable, or go and work out or listen to a good song or hang out with your girlfriend or family. I understand why people need god, and I understand why people in poorer countries are closer to god and to the spirits.

CASSEL: Because you have to believe in something. Jonatan, I’m going to have to go because I’m taking Narah and the baby to the osteopath.

LEAN: Okay, nice.

CASSEL: Because it’s almost like a car accident when they arrive. So the guy we go to see, he’s literally realigning everything, and for the mother and the baby it’s incredible. I’m going to be the cab driver.

LEAN: I hope your baby does not read this interview and understand that it was a car accident.

CASSEL: [Laughs] I’m sure if he has a great sense of humor, he will get it.

LEAN: Yeah. Okay. Nice. And then how long are you in Paris for?

CASSEL: I’m going to try to go to Brazil around the 14th or the 13th of February.

LEAN: My dream is when this album comes that I just do shows in Brazil. I really want to. I want to play this album and my songs in Brazil, and then we hang out and we go and eat good meat.

CASSEL: And fish.

LEAN: With a little bit of salt and pepper.

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Hair: Miwako Urasugi using Oribe and Tecuane Hair at B&A Reps. 

Makeup: Sena Murahashi using Mac Cosmetics at MA+ Group. 

Photography Assistant: Ben Kasun. 

Fashion Assistant: Finn Falcon. 

Location: Arcadia Farm.